New REI looking to BRRR - keep saving cash or get HML

Hartford, Connecticut
Starting Out
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New REI looking to BRRR - keep saving cash or get HML

Nicholas Mangiafico
Investor · CT · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes

Hi all,

My name is Nick. This is my first post on BP so I'll introduce myself. I am a 27 year old pharmacist from Connecticut and I, along with my partner, are looking to get into real estate investing. We currently own a single family that we live in, and have no children. We are looking to get into the multifamily market and would like to start with a BRRR, not something that needs massive renovations, but definitely a property that will teach us lessons, eradicate our fears and anxieties, and hopefully give us a pretty good ROI. We are thinking of buying a triplex or quadplex near one of the hospitals and attempting to rent out two units as long terms and having the third and/or fourth be short term rentals for about a month for students on rotations there (this is subject to change depending on where I can get the best deal). Because of the job market for the past few years and completing a residency I have only been working full time and full salary for about 1 year now. We have about 70-80k saved up between us and about 100k left in student loans. We would like to buy the property with cash and renovate it. My question is should we wait and continue to save until we have enough to do it all with our own money, or should we go with a hard money lender so we can get into the market quicker? My fears are waiting to save may take too long and our zeal will fade with time, but with the HML we have extra expenses in points and other things to consider.

Also I've heard various things about whether the market will continue to remain high or whether it will crash. Any insight on this and how it may affect a BRRR in the buying or refinancing phase would be greatly appreciated.

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Michael J.
Real Estate Agent · Greenville, SC · Member since 2021 · 210 posts · 142 votes
4y

Sell your single family, buy a triplex or quad and house hack it.  Live in the smallest unit, renovate and rent out the other units.

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  • Michael J.
    Real Estate Agent · Greenville, SC · Member since 2021 · 210 posts · 142 votes
    4y

    Sell your single family, buy a triplex or quad and house hack it.  Live in the smallest unit, renovate and rent out the other units.

    1Reply
  • Nicholas Mangiafico
    OP
    Investor · CT · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Michael J.:

    Sell your single family, buy a triplex or quad and house hack it.  Live in the smallest unit, renovate and rent out the other units.

    I tried to do that before we bought the SF but I didn't win that. We have talked about selling since we would make a good profit on it right now and downsizing to a smaller house as well as a multifamily
    1Reply
  • Jared Prevost
    Lender · Tampa, FL · Member since 2020 · 113 posts · 119 votes
    4y

    @Nicholas Mangiafico First off, congratulations on starting your career as a pharmacist! You're in a really good spot as a DINK (duel-income, no kids). Additionally, if your student loans are subsidized / unsubsidized loans, your interest is far less than inflation, so I wouldn't be focused on paying those loans off.

    Here's what I think, I would encourage you to find a hard money lender that has a good reputation in town. Here's why, if the hard money lender is experienced and willing to sign off on the loan, then you know the deal is legitimate. (This is actually advice Brandon gave in one of his books on a flip that went poorly).

    As far as the strategy goes, monthly furnished rentals (especially through the Airbnb platform) is my favorite rental strategy. You have responsible tenants, highly inelastic demand, the presence of healthcare drastically reduces vacancy risk, and you don't ever need to show units (tire kickers galore for nicer units).

    Another plus with the BRRRR model is highly distressed properties are ideal. Now if you don't have reno experience, this can be a negative. However, the advantage is that you have more flexibility to position the property with nicer finishes and change floor plans to make the property more valuable (add a bathroom, expand the kitchen, etc). I think one risk with BRRRR is if you don't find a property at a good discount or with sufficient distress, you could do a full reno with hard money and then not see a high enough appraised value to address the loan.

    One final thought on the question to leverage or save is that one of the most attractive aspects of real estate is how conducive it is to leverage. Unlike other assets and businesses, banks and private lenders will readily lend 60%-100% of the after repair value of the asset. Leverage is critical because it magnifies either your gains or losses - it's really a question of your confidence in the deal, your ability to execute, and your tolerance for risk.

    0Reply
  • Nicholas Mangiafico
    OP
    Investor · CT · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jared Prevost:

    @Nicholas Mangiafico First off, congratulations on starting your career as a pharmacist! You're in a really good spot as a DINK (duel-income, no kids). Additionally, if your student loans are subsidized / unsubsidized loans, your interest is far less than inflation, so I wouldn't be focused on paying those loans off.

    Here's what I think, I would encourage you to find a hard money lender that has a good reputation in town. Here's why, if the hard money lender is experienced and willing to sign off on the loan, then you know the deal is legitimate. (This is actually advice Brandon gave in one of his books on a flip that went poorly).

    As far as the strategy goes, monthly furnished rentals (especially through the Airbnb platform) is my favorite rental strategy. You have responsible tenants, highly inelastic demand, the presence of healthcare drastically reduces vacancy risk, and you don't ever need to show units (tire kickers galore for nicer units).

    Another plus with the BRRRR model is highly distressed properties are ideal. Now if you don't have reno experience, this can be a negative. However, the advantage is that you have more flexibility to position the property with nicer finishes and change floor plans to make the property more valuable (add a bathroom, expand the kitchen, etc). I think one risk with BRRRR is if you don't find a property at a good discount or with sufficient distress, you could do a full reno with hard money and then not see a high enough appraised value to address the loan.

    One final thought on the question to leverage or save is that one of the most attractive aspects of real estate is how conducive it is to leverage. Unlike other assets and businesses, banks and private lenders will readily lend 60%-100% of the after repair value of the asset. Leverage is critical because it magnifies either your gains or losses - it's really a question of your confidence in the deal, your ability to execute, and your tolerance for risk.


    Thank you for the response. I appreciate your suggestions and ideas, especially about getting an in town HML. I personally have no reno experience, but I have a very strong supporting group. Some of my closest friends are GCs, or have completed BRRRs, and/or have done ground up constructions. My partner's dad is a GC and carpenter and is willing to teach me and help me along the way (especially since she's an only child). So I figure with this support around me I have a bigger tolerance level for harder renovations. There was recently a shell of a duplex on the market near me that I considered moving on, but got nervous because I had less money at the time. I've also considered looking in other markets as the properties are much cheaper, but am nervous about not being near my first property.

    0Reply
  • Michael KusyBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · CT and MA · Member since 2021 · 26 posts · 16 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Nicholas Mangiafico:
    Quote from @Michael J.:

    Sell your single family, buy a triplex or quad and house hack it.  Live in the smallest unit, renovate and rent out the other units.

    I tried to do that before we bought the SF but I didn't win that. We have talked about selling since we would make a good profit on it right now and downsizing to a smaller house as well as a multifamily

    I like this idea the best. It seems to be the cleanest and easiest way to level up. How long have you lived at your current SF property? I purchased distressed properties, renovated them with my dad, and lived in them for at least two years before selling. The taxes savings were incredible and I was able to roll 100% of the gains into my next investment.

    Let me know how I can be of assistance. I can do a CMA on your current property and also look into 3/4 unit properties in CT markets that you're interested in. Thanks!

    [email protected]860-402-5872
    0Reply
  • Samuel Eddinger
    Meriden, CT · Member since 2018 · 698 posts · 500 votes
    4y

    @Nicholas Mangiafico - Another investor from CT here! Congrats on saving up that much. In general, I advise people to either buy really bad or really good properties. Bad properties need a lot of money to fix up but you realize that equity when you sell/refinance. This puts your LTV as high as possible (and possibly greater than 100% if you made so much extra equity).

    For the good properties, most if not all of the work has already been done so you will have a high LTV as well.

    If you buy something in the middle, you will need a mortgage and then your excess cash will be put into roofs, and other deferred maintenance/CAPEX and you will not be able to scale as quickly.

    I'd be happy to talk if you are interested. 

    0Reply
  • Nicholas Mangiafico
    OP
    Investor · CT · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Michael Kusy:
    Quote from @Nicholas Mangiafico:
    Quote from @Michael J.:

    Sell your single family, buy a triplex or quad and house hack it.  Live in the smallest unit, renovate and rent out the other units.

    I tried to do that before we bought the SF but I didn't win that. We have talked about selling since we would make a good profit on it right now and downsizing to a smaller house as well as a multifamily

    I like this idea the best. It seems to be the cleanest and easiest way to level up. How long have you lived at your current SF property? I purchased distressed properties, renovated them with my dad, and lived in them for at least two years before selling. The taxes savings were incredible and I was able to roll 100% of the gains into my next investment.

    Let me know how I can be of assistance. I can do a CMA on your current property and also look into 3/4 unit properties in CT markets that you're interested in. Thanks!


    Thank you for the reply. We are coming up on two years in our home. It would be something I am open to, but my partner is not. She will not house hack with me, unfortunately so we wont be able to scale as fast as I'd like (unless I can somehow get into syndications without a good deal of experience - hopefully this is an option as I am going to start networking at REIA meetings.) Feel free to inbox me your information and I will reach out with any way you can be of assistance.

    0Reply
  • Nicholas Mangiafico
    OP
    Investor · CT · Member since 2021 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Samuel Eddinger:

    @Nicholas Mangiafico - Another investor from CT here! Congrats on saving up that much. In general, I advise people to either buy really bad or really good properties. Bad properties need a lot of money to fix up but you realize that equity when you sell/refinance. This puts your LTV as high as possible (and possibly greater than 100% if you made so much extra equity).

    For the good properties, most if not all of the work has already been done so you will have a high LTV as well.

    If you buy something in the middle, you will need a mortgage and then your excess cash will be put into roofs, and other deferred maintenance/CAPEX and you will not be able to scale as quickly.

    I'd be happy to talk if you are interested. 


     Thanks for reaching out. I would be happy to talk with you and meet up with you, most of my close investor friends are out of state now (Maine and Vermont.) So it is not always possible to sit down and have a discussion. I have a couple other options I am willing to explore and learn about too. Please send me your information and I will reach out when I get back from vacation.

    0Reply
  • Joe Almeida
    Real Estate Broker · Bridgeport, CT · Member since 2010 · 18 posts · 13 votes
    4y

    @Nicholas Mangiafico Due to your profession and work schedule, it may be wiser for you to focus on properties that are not major renovations, unless you partner up with another investor. Using leverage is always the best way to grow your wealth in real estate. It appears you've got a nice nest egg to start. Yes HML is an avenue to pursue, but there are many private lenders that would feel comfortable lending you money based on your financial circumstances. (Even though you're just starting your profession, you're definitely in a low risk category for lenders). And interest can be lower than HML (7-9%)

    2-4 family houses should be your target. Look for properties that you can add value to either by some renovation, renting vacancies, increasing apartments. Buy using your money and private money (or maybe HML if you can negotiate a good deal). Increase the cash flow and value. Re-finance with an institutional conventional mortgage. And then suck out all the tax benefits to shelter your income! I've done it and so have a bunch of my investors over 40 years. Lots of wealthy people enjoying early retirement!

    Let me know if you'd like to chat or need anything.

    1Reply
  • Kevin Woodard
    Lender · Nationwide · Member since 2021 · 220 posts · 105 votes
    4y

    @Nicholas Mangiafico partner with a good realtor that knows the area and can look for your target property. I would focus on light rehab to increase the ARV and allowing you to pull most, if not all of your initial capital out of the deal. As you become more comfortable and grow your network, you could look at venturing into heavier projects. Hope this helps!

    1Reply
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