Do i really need a permit everytime?

Question

I have two questions but let me give you the details as to not confuse anyone. I went to go look at a property this week. SFH , 2/1 w a detached garage. 1940s . Fort worth texas area

•No existing central HVaC system.

•Electric needs upgrade all thru out home.

•plumbing needs to be updated all thru out.

1st question is

If hire to install the HVAC , get the plumbing replaced, and as well as all new electrical do i need to pull out permits as long as i get everything up to code and if the buyer send his inspector out itll be good can i avoid having to pull out permits and put in the description of my home when im selling it (that everything is upgraded and new) ?

Because w permits alone alot of my bids are charging almost 1200 more plus the permit .

2nd question

When im adding another room in the same square footage inside a home do i need to pull out permits in order for it to be legit and on paper . In other word to covert this 2/1 into lets say a 3/1 as long as its in the same sq footage and up to code do i need to pull out permitsor just when im adding square footage . My contractor said if im adding a room withing the 1040 square feet i dont need permits only if im adding sq ft to the homes but how will i get it to show on paper in the print do i need permits in order for it to be legit . ?

Thank you for your time and im sorry if i confused anyone !

Michael Gessner · Answer

@Pedro Amador very simple answer for you, everything in your post that you desire to have done on this property will be illegal with out the permits, you will not be able to market the property with said upgrades, nor market the property with an additional room because now you are changing the occupancy of the dwelling. If you proceed without permits 1 of 2 things will happen, 1 you skirt by un noticed which I highly doubt because now alot of municipalities actually have staff sifting thru the listings for renovations, they have realtors who actually give them previous listings of the property to compare and so on. 2 you get caught and now u have a pissed off Inspector, either he let's u go easy by having licensed contractors verify the completed work, or he forces you to tear all the drywall off and force you to expose all the work you did. And yes he has the right to do so and if you defy all he needs is a court order, or he just tacks on the violations so now you don't have a clear title to close.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

#1 - Not only are permits legally required for those items you mention, but it would be very unwise to do it illegally. Could you possibly sneak those things in? Maybe.... But if you mention to the next buyer that those are new, he will most likely call the city to check permit status. A good Home Inspector will certainly advise the new buyer to call and check. Once they find out that the work was done illegally, now you have opened the can of worms. If they still want to buy at all, they now have a very good reason to no offer you anywhere near asking price, and if the city gets involved, they can make you tear out all drywall to expose the wiring, ducts, pipes, etc.

Also what kind of Contractor is willing to operate like this? I'm guessing you're using unlicensed scabs to do the work so you can save a few more bucks....?

#2 - Yes you do. Even if you're not involved with load bearing walls, you still need to do this up-to-code...which means a  grounded receptacle is required every 12 ft, with grounded switches. That is electrical, so once again this must be inspected.

My advice - If you're going to be in this business, start off doing it right. Why? Because a) it's the right way to do it b) the costs when you get caught will ruin you. c) you'll get a reputation as a cheater.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

I would find a good General Contractor and let him handle this. He will sort out the various bids and make sure you're treated fairly and the work is done right. Don't listen to lenders regarding construction...they generally know less than nothing.

If you decide to do this as an Owner/Builder, that's ok, but you'll need to really be on top of it. Check all subs licenses/insurance/bond status etc....

The next time it's appraised they will pick up the room change......

Good luck!

Nick Rutkowski · Answer

@Pedro Amador

You need a permit for both situations. Situation one definitely needs a permit. Situation two needs it for the structural. You can get this all in one or they might issue you two. You’ll have to eat the permit cost but that’s the cost of business. If you don’t get a permit, you’re running the risk of your operation getting shut down and you’ll get fined.

If your permit cost is too much, run through the estimate again and pick out the bare bones of the project. Then get a permit for that. This should shrink your cost. If code thinks you owe more then they can make that decision when they inspect.

Don’t make your code enforcer angry, they will make your life miserable if they hate you. You want these guys to be your best friends.

Edward Moore · Answer

@Pedro Amador DM me and I will give you my answer based on what I have seen.

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

Or..... if he's really having a bad day, like he and his wife had a fight or something, he can just Red Tag the job and shut it down. And then he calls his buddy at Code Enforcement that sits next to him at the office, and they start adding a daily fine, like $500....And that quickly turns into $50,000. And then the next buyer finds out that he is responsible for paying that. And you never sell the house. Ever.

I know some of you guys are thinking this might have happened to me at some point in my career........? Or someone I knew? Or maybe it's a nightmare compilation? I can't remember anymore..... :-)

Bruce Woodruff · Answer

In my experience, it was always because they were unlicensed. How many times did I hear - 'You don't need no permit'.....

Nick Rutkowski · Answer

@Bruce Woodruff

He’s probably using unlicensed workers, hopefully they’re at least insured. I don’t know the rules in TX but in NY you can get away with no insurance or license if the job is under 1k. Plumbing and electric need to be done by licensed contractors but that’s it. It makes me wonder how houses are still standing in NY.

John Teachout · Answer

Permitting varies a lot by municipality. It's good to establish a relationship with your jurisdiction's code enforcement or whatever they call the building zoning department in charge of that stuff. Tell them what you would like to do and ask them what permits you would need from their perspective. Ask their advice up front and avoid a confrontational relationship because they can keep you awake at night. Building/remodeling permits are part of a project. Any contractor that doesn't want to work under a permit may have a reason and that would be something to cause you concern. A good tradesman knows their stuff and isn't afraid of someone looking at it. If it's right, it's right.

Pedro Amador · Answer

@Bruce Woodruff

Thank you sir

Do i really need a permit everytime?

Most Popular Reply