All Forum Posts by: Zach Jones

@Chris Seveney OK , so OWC would mainly be used if you had issues with getting financed as another option.. guess I'll ignore that step and go standard FHA.

So, sorry for the vague title... but I've got some questions on Owner Will Carry (OWC). I can obviously see what the home is for sale for, and I can do the math on basic rates right now. BUT what I do not know is what is considered a good deal on OWC finance? Does anyone have experience in this? Specifically in our current '23 market. To specify, I'm asking what are some good rates/terms you would expect? I'm assuming owners aren't offering to carry a 15/30 yr notes so they might be 5 yr w/ "balloons"? I really don't know so I'm looking for some guidance. ALSO, if you're in here then you know something on current financing. I'm looking at 2 MF homes currently and am intersted in getting pre approved, I know there are all kinds of loan officers on here so does anyone wanna provide some info and potentially work something out? On all my mock numbers, I've been using rates of around 8.3% but I feel like better is out there.. 800+ beacon, good DTI and 25% down.

The "why" to this post, is me figuring out if it makes sense to chase the ever illustrious OWC financing or go after traditional financing with a strong rate.. the fact he/she is offering it seems great, I just know nothing about it and I don't want to reach out knowing nothing and come off as uniformed and wasting their time. 

I appreciate any info you can bring !  As always thanks to the BP community for being such a great place to feel free to ask these questions learn about this stuff! 

@Timothy Hero YES! Leverage

@Kevin Guerin I like where your mind is at on that, I'm a fan of new construction as I have a friend whose father did very well on a new con SFH build that is working out for him PHENOMENALLY. In my market, Central Florida, even with the 25+% down its hard to find a decent deal numbers wise. But I do like the strategy so I occasionally look at the new con MF.. duplex just sold for 550, in a B neighborhood at that.

Not sure what word I put here originally, but it looks much worse asterisk'd out. 

 I've seen people have good luck with paying a ****** tenant to leave... instead of spending the cash and trying to properly evict, just offer them a cash amount in hand to get out.  $1000? $2000? Cash money.  A friend does this with foreclosures and many people will leave for fairly small sums of cash.

@Evan Hopple This isn't the first time I've seen someone mention the OH market.  Are you living in that area??

@Bob Stevens I've already gotten my feet a little wet in RE so I'm not trying tomake any dumd decisions such as that.. BUT , thats amazing man!  Congratrs on the success. Rents anywhere near that level on a 100k property is phenomenal.  If I can ask, are you an OOS investor or are you living in that market?  Would love to hear back from you on this.  A family friend mentioned a part of GA to me where homes are selling for under 40k and renting for 8-900 which is also absolute insanity .

@Henry Lazerow I'm a small investor my friend. In no way do I consider myself a big player.  I've got a friend who flips 10+ homes a month.. he's a big player. I'm a small fish in this pond and I have 0 issues acknowledging that.  Cash Flow for me is freedom. 

@ks, I can't seem to tag you... But, in Florida where I'm at, the condo market is something I want 0 part in. Between escalating HOA fees and RIDICULOUS assessments lately, I'M OUT! No way I'm letting a random board tell me I "owe" $5-120k because they "say so". Glad to hear you could make it work for you though. And I've got the mindset to be a big dog, just not the check book to back it up!

@Dave Kush Good for you man, networking is coming up more and more and being able to take someone to lunch and introduce yourself is a valid strategy. Let me ask something that is gonna get me torn apart for not knowing, but it constantly throws me off when talking to other investor on BP. The 6-7% you're referring to.. What is that referring to?? COC return? like if you had 100k invested between DP/CC/etc and have a positive CF of 1000 a month. You're looking at 1%? Or are you using that number annually, so 10%? I know its a dumb question but I'd appreciate some clarity.

@Zachary Ware Any advice on building that bots on the ground team?? Leaving the Fl market is wayyy cheaper but the lack of the aforementioned team makes things quite challenging.

@Zachary Ware Several are recommending house hacking which I'm very familiar with but don't have much interest in doing.  I own my primary home and its value is upwards of 250% of what I paid for it a few years ago. There is no way I could get anything near what I have at any realistic cost.  Only way I'm moving is for a nice piece of property with a good lookin home on it! Seller financing is a beautiful thing if you can find someone willing to entertain in, my market is full of old timers ready to retire and be done.. most don't want to deal with payments unfortunately, even if it results in them saving handsomely in the tax area.  

@AJ Exner YES.  This is my speed. Buy and hold is my personal bible.  I need to reach out to a local hard money lender.. get an idea on their rates/programs..

Also, going standard financing.. I'm seeing similar rates .  Not sure I see the benefit of the HM loan, unless you don't have the 25% down to go with standard financing.  Not sure how anyone could buy any investment currently without 20/25% down though because that mortgage would just be a monster. 

@Corby Goade I definitley had to have said something to make everyone think I'm trying to house hack, lol. This is pure investment. I've got a pretty large chunk of money down and you'd be impressed at how large some of these mortgages are, STILL. My market is quite chaotic in Central Florida.. older not updated duplexes being listed for 340s-400k, Tris going for around 700, and quads are so hard to find couldn't give you any kind of parameters. The big thing currently is people coming to reality on their list prices. I favorited a triplex probably 3 months ago and checkd on it yesterday to see that the sale price got dropped by $124k and there it is.. still listed with presumably 0 offers, presumably because financially it just doesn't make sense even as a STR. Between pries and rates, its silly.

@Travis Biziorek My man.. that is ALOT. But good luck on that journey. Looking at that ARV probably makes that pill a wholelot easier to swallow. My current set up wouldn't allow for an ADU with my homes layout but I do really like the idea of potentially doing something like that and looking at properties that could support that vision. Maybe a duplex/triplex long term and a small ADU or even the popular "tiny homes"/fancy sheds lol as a STR to generate extra income w/ a crazy return. Good luck on your future construction and I hope it fares you well in the $$ department!

@Samuel Leatherwood Funny you mention Daytona.  I've seen neighborhoods there that were 50k for the average home in '20 now averaging around 190k for 1100 sq ft 3/1s in c/d neighborhoods.. Crazy what a few years can do.  And I appreciate the vote of confidence! Hopefully something comes along here soon, but it definitely feels good to complain a little and hear other opinions and not get told i'm crazy.

@Crystal Smith 1- This might be a stupid question, but isn't private money typically more expensive then the fed? Unless you're dealing with partners/your peers..

2- Build to Rent is BEAUTIFUL. I was recently turned on to this strategy by a friend whose father built a 4b/3b home in an up and coming area for around 320 (well over a year ago..), upon completion he had it rented immediately for over $3000 .  Great cash flow on a brand new property needing minimal maintenance and a great portfolio add.

3- Buying distressed.. Are you buying tax liens/foreclosures? the thought of distressed properties is alluring because of BRRR and obviously a much cheaper sale price. And well said.. I definitely limit myself . Might be time to gain a little knowledge and confidence to move out of my county.

Speculation is all we can do really and hopefully after talking among ourselves we can all learn a little something.. as far as a crash is concerned.  I saw a funny little video explaining how it could be triggered.  Essentially neighbor A buys a home for 200k 15 years ago.  They sell it for 400k.  Neighbor B bought 5 years ago for 320, sees he can make a quick buck and sells for 389.  Neighbor C sees the 400k sale so they BUY for 410, thinking it s a good value for the area. Neighbor D bought for 310 a few years ago and he decides to get out for 360... basically the older people see start selling , but because they are making a profit, they start accepting less and less cash for their homes and the newer people are left holding the bag for their recently purchased 400k+ homes. As I reread that.. I explained it horribly but hopefully you get the gist.  What you said about general RE knowledge too... very valid. Tiktok/IG .. kids talking about househacking.  All  of that plays into the absurdity of todays market and sometimes I do truly believe taking no CF could be a smart move based on the inability to buy in the future based on both price and availability... you never know!

@Nicholas L. I know it was a lot, kind of a rant/brainstorm/info grab of a post.. I currently own my SFH and have a MF property that is fully rented... I've been attempting to duplicate (stack) and in this current climate it just seems impossible. I know Fl isn't the cheapest of markets by any means and I know alot of people tend to search out of state for those reasons .. and I'd attempt to househack if it made sense on a tri/quad but running the numbers, CF is comical at best.

@Eliott Elias Creative finance is a beautiful thing from all I've read.. but finding it, specifically owner financing, is much easier said then done unfortunately .. I'll take any advice in finding those deals though ;)

@Travis Biziorek Awesome strategy my friend.. kind of interested in #2 and 3. The ADU would ba cool idea for a rental property if there was space for it. I have a family and don't want to share my personal space with a tenant. As far as a live in flip while keeping your primary... very nice. Are you doing and FHA and "living in it" while you do the reno? Also, presuming your doing some stuff yourself based on your previous experience. What is your rough time of completion on something like that?

@Jim Spalding I use the traditional MLS' but also have a few realtors that send me things of my interest. Beyond door knocking/mailers, where do you typically find your off market deals? I know alot tends to be who you and working on your relationships, something I could be better at. Prices trending up forsure, but the good news is the influx helps rent keep rising too and IMO owning in Fl is an all around wing simply because Florida (and great tenant/landlord laws). I recently met someone who supposedly purchased w/in the past 3 years in GA several properties under 30k that rent for right around 900 a month. Phenomenal returns.

@Benjamin Aaker Exactly!  I know they're buying, that's why I'm asking! You're right ab sellers understanding reality because 75/100k price cuts are becoming more common. Appreciate the hopeful insight and I hope you're right.  And on that same note, if/when the rates go down.. the values are going up.. way up in Fl I'd imagine based on the dog fight of a market we've currently got going on. 

@Mason Weiss HOW ?? That's the secret sauce I need. These off market deals /direct to seller sound like heaven to me and I've read amazing stories about them but I haven't seen/heard of any myself. Not yet anyway. I'm an owner of a tri currently and own my SFH I live in. I couldn't do the live in flip due to the family unfortunately but I have thought about an FHA on a MF and I.. move .. and leave my primary alone for a year and rent out the other units. The upside, 3% DP, "yay".. the downside, putting that little bit of cash down is insanity these days unless you want a $5500 mortgage, lol.

@Samuel Leatherwood Love to hear from a local.  The break even/couple hundred on a duplex doesn't interest me.  I don't say that at all in a cocky manner , just in the reality of using money as a tool.  I don't see the benefit of being out a 6 figure sum to make gas money.  Triplexes/Quads occasionally come up here in Volusia but some of these sellers have hit their heads and I really hope they recover soon because they're insane.  If I was looking for a primary, I couldn't agree more. Duplex>SF.  Multi Family Millionaire by Brandon Turner has made me a MF whore and its really hard to see the investment value in a SF at this point in time.

@John Morgan MY MAN. I JUST talked to my realtor this week about him potentially getting on board to offend some people.. the worst they can say is no & seeing your response throws gas on that fire man.  Good for you. Love to see it.  All in the tX market I'd assume?