All Forum Posts by: William Savage

Greetings all,

I have a background in construction engineering and management and I want to take on a role as a GC/Developer/Planner for new construction of a pre-fabricated home property.

I'm planning on building multi-unit structures for rent in an urban lot, (I will have to get this lot re-zoned) but for the process of construction, I'm trying to determine which permits I absolutely need to obtain, and which inspections I need to conduct, and how much all of this is going to cost.

In other words, I'm having difficulty in determining fact from fiction when it comes to inspections and permits, and distinguishing which ones I absolutely must obtain, and which ones are just "good to have."

It's my understanding that all inspections and permits are good to have in general, but I also understand that there are a few that may not totally be necessary. 

Is there any truth to this? The pre-manufactured home I have in mind is going to be built to my local code before it ships, so I'm not concerned about the building itself.

Outside of my underground MEP connections, are there any others that I must have besides my general building permit? Geotech? Sloping/Grading for watershed?

Is it essential for me to know all of the requirements that I need to fulfill? Or are these things that the City will help me address as I build the property?

Someone with experience who can elaborate on this would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks

 Matt, the inspectors would most likely wait until the building was assembled and completed here in the U.S. 

If the Chinese manufacturer was analytical in their development, they would specialize their pre-fabricated panels to be malleable (when it comes to MEP), so that the structure conformed to each jurisdiction-code that they were shipping them to. 

@Jim Adrian Can you specify what you meant by 14ft maximum? I didn't quite understand.

Do you mean for deliveries? From what I've been told for truck deliveries, I get a 12ft wide max width allowance, otherwise it's an additional $1,200.00 for a wide-load crew to follow. 

The majority of reasoning I'm getting from a lot of you is as follows... "I know stick built structures, that's what John Doe, Johnny Inspector, Jack the city zoning specialist and I are used to." 

This is not hard reasoning. 

Can anyone show me or e-mail me the numbers or estimate packages they've put together comparing the two processes of stick built vs. modular? I'd love to sit down and have someone engage me in real discussion. I studied civil/construction engineering in college and I work for a global Arch/Eng. and I've learned to become borderline obsessive when pricing and putting estimates together. 3+ days and I'm still carefully gathering cost information.  

The models for container homes I'm looking at are technically "modular" but really deserve their own special category. These homes have 2-3 pieces to attach together, and your done. They're engineered, designed, and built to pass inspections with respect to local and state codes. Also, they can be adjusted if necessary to accomodate VRBO or Air B&B specifications. Proper zoning would need to occur.

Also, I'm indifferent if it takes two months to build these in a factory. It is NOT the same as two months to build outdoors. 

Indoors = no noise, no construction traffic, no hazards to public, no run-off, no overhead, no-temp. facilities, no injuries, no supervision, no crews, none of my active participation. 

The key idea here is that I am a full-time employee, and do not have time.

All I would need (as far as contractors) for the project that I have in mind is a screw-pile contractor. 

These pre-fab containers don't need typical foundations, which from my numbers, cut the cost by 50% when compared to foundation slabs with retaining walls/footings. 

The manufacturer of these models also sends two crew members to make connections, and all of the interior items and finishes are pre-installed, and stand tall against code. This process takes two days and costs $5k.

For these units, I would need to buy a fridge, and a washer/dryer (maybe). 

Driveways? For most properties in the neighborhoods I want to build? No.

Patios/Sidewalks/Site Conditions/Minor-Landscaping? Sweat equity 

It's silly to argue over appeal, aesthetics, because it is all very subjective in real-estate. Location is far more important (I've clearly read many guru real-estate books)...However, for conversation, I obviously would appeal to a younger demographic (millenniall/gen-x) but if this became a multi-unit rental or VRBO? 

I would argue that in the right neighborhood this model would be very appealing. I spoke with someone who made an apartment complex out of truck trailers in Phoenix, AZ (these buildings had no facade work done at all) who said he has been overwhelmed with solicitations. It makes since it's so uncommon, and they look exotic. *Google search: "Containers on Grand" if interested.

These may not maintain their luster forever, but for at-least 5-10 years, I'd wager that they remain fairly relevant since the facade is so generic. 

Especially if they're placed in a neighborhood adjacent to RiNo. 

@JimArdrian

You'd probably have to reach out to the developer. Property was made from re-serviced storage containers at the corner of 25th and Larimer. 2500 Larimer is the address.

Travis,

What kind of town homes? Stick built? Modular? 

The building method being discussed is still new a concept. Just like anything else, builders like to stick to what they know. Just because something is not popular doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't hold merit. I'm impartial to these types of homes, and if another method is cheaper, than I'd probably go for it. I will say that empirically, the time involved and convenience of building is unmatched by standard methods. For someone working a full-time job (non real-estate), this option is attractive. There are new properties in RiNo that are storage container built, so perhaps the same concept could be applied in an adjacent neighborhood. My thoughts, but still researching...

Matt, 

I spoke with a company yesterday that said they do engineering in-house, and part of their package is coordinating with the customer's local building codes for the MEP, roofing, structural foundation, etc. and obtaining a (Colorado) engineering stamp. The buyer is responsible for obtaining the geo-tech report for the foundation but that's about it. In addition they erect the home for a nominal fee. (Estimated 2 days to erect).

They're a new company (their grand opening is today actually) and they've made sales in a few U.S. cities thus far. 

I'm seriously taking into consideration doing this type of project as well if the price is right, and if I can land a deal on a lot of land here in Denver. 

I can inbox you their info. 

Thanks Jay,

I know these types of homes have been thought to be a possible solution to homelessness in the U.S and other parts of the world. For this purpose, they probably won't be the pre-finished variety, but rather ones that need to be completely stripped, re-painted, etc. 

Architects seem to hate these homes because it interferes with their designing freedom. 

I studied engineering, so I see things from a nuts/bolts standpoint and from a cost-efficiency stand-point. It just so happens that in addition to time and money savings, they're supposedly good for the environment, and at the minimum, utilizes some of the surplus of containers that are sitting in our bays/harbors.

I'm interested in finding out about more on the subject, and to hear any recipes for success for installing these.

@Maverick Pate]

I'm investigating the exact same thing.

Some companies will send you these homes, with various sizes, pre-assembled. They will contain elect./hvac systems, and will even customize them to meet the code in whichever city your in. 10 weeks time total. 

I'm sure you can obtain the plan-sets for the homes from them when you buy (arch. engineering, electrical mechanical) to have them approved by your state. (this will eliminate issues with the building code.) This seems to be the biggest hurdle. That, and foundation/grading if necessary.

Where are you planning on implementing this idea? I'm living in Denver and I think that it has potential to develop.

Bill,

Thanks for the feedback. Since my post I used the search function and found several forms on the topic, and will continue due diligence. 

I'm particularly interested in the storage container models, although I am not emotionally attached to this method of investment. 

Contrary to what you stated for lot prices, I see a lot on Zillow right now in the Cole neighborhood for 125k, so I don't think my estimate is too far off, but I don't know the market as well in Denver - as I've only lived here a year. 

The home prices I based on manufacturer web-sites, and yes, (depending on manufacturer) they are pre-fitted with electric, hvac, finish flooring, and insulation. I do not know if they include cost of shipping, insurance, etc. and is something I will have to look into. 

This couple built their own container home in Denver and had it appraised at +$700k in 2016 with roughly $430k in construction. 

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/04/01/couple-builds...

This is fairly consistent with market studies on these types of homes that I've seen. 

Qualitatively, I have little concern about how these homes look or how eco-friendly they are.

Bill, If you've personally seen these homes in Denver turn out to be disasters then I would have to remain objective and pursue another investment method.

They seem to save money and time.

I several questions for any investors who have experience with pre-fabricated/modular/shipping-container type of homes. (Single family or Multi-Family).

I'm considering the idea of buying a vacant lot in any given Denver neighborhood, (Curtis Park, Cole, Berkely, University, etc.) and putting in a pre-fabricated home. The thought here would be to try to sell immediately. 

Generally speaking, pre-fab homes come with existing HVAC and Electrical systems, flooring, insulation, etc. and some brands even promise they will meet the specs for the local building codes anywhere on the continental U.S. 

Additionally, some of these homes even have garages, solar panel connections, etc. 

Current estimate I have shows:

I understand they require the use of a crane to erect, and will need to have some form of foundation/slab on grade. 

From all research I've done, everything from academic articles to news articles etc., is that these homes are cheaper, reduce the need for architects, various contractors, and dramatically reduce building time. (10 weeks from start of fabrication to final completion on-site).

• Price for these homes: $(100k-180k) ~ ($120.00/SF - $150.00/SF)
• Price for vacant lot: $(100k-300k) ~
• Misc. permitting, appraisals, brokers, etc. : $(15k-20k) ~

I see a lot of delta here between a potential final asking price and a total project cost.

All in all, I think that there is a market for this type of modern, "environmentally friendly" type of home, and I've seen news-stories on successful storage container homes that were built in Denver.

Should I believe all of the hype, or am I drinking too much kool-aid? Is there any real difference here or is it no different pursuing building a stick-built home?

Please let me know your thoughts, particularly if you have direct experience with this type of home.

Thanks!