All Forum Posts by: William Carroll

You could say all the same things about most of rural America (minus the graft part, of course). Manufacturing jobs left rural America years ago and nothing yet has filled the vacuum, nor does there appear to be anything on the horizon. Not to minimize the issues, but I still believe small/mid-sized cities are far better positioned to handle this than most of rural America. As long as an area has good universities and infrastructure, there is a shot at re-tooling into a modern economy. IMO Cleveland falls into this category. 

I visit Cleveland quite often as my company has a remote branch there. It's not quite the cesspool in decline that the OP's stats make it out to be. It's rebounded quite nicely since the most recent economic depression. 

I've actually been looking at Cleveland a little harder for investment because Columbus has gotten so expensive. Many of the C-class neighborhoods are actually in better shape than Columbus, which has some large patches of internal rot that never seems to improve. Columbus multi-fam housing stock is highly fractured between expensive wealthy suburbs/trendy gentrification areas and urban decay, with very little in between. In Cleveland, there appears to be way more B/C-class stock there at lower prices. The costs are higher due to the fact that you can't pass the water bill to the tenants, and taxes can be high in spots (though the same can be said for Columbus). 

Biggest downside to Cleveland IMO is the weather, but almost everyone except the most hardcore deniers are starting to face the fact that climate is getting warmer, which will over the course of the next several decades make northern states more desirable. Climate in Columbus is far warmer than it was when I was a kid over 40 years ago, when it was common to have winters containing extended periods of sub-zero temperatures.  Sub-zero temperatures are almost anomalies now. Cleveland's by a great lake, so it does have a climate that is somewhat worse than Columbus, but I've heard a couple times recently that Grand Rapids, MI is booming, and I'm not sure anyone has worse winter weather outside of Siberia or Antarctica.   

Maybe at some point. I would need to spend some time understanding how to buy, manage, and liquidate (if needed) notes. I've done some basic research, but would need to get a more specific strategy. It's also not clear to me if the long-term returns would be any better than owning the physical asset... one bad default could wipe out several years of returns.  

Also, one thing I like owning a real estate is that in addition to the cash flow, you have (assuming you buy correctly) an appreciating asset as part of your overall net worth.  

Columbus is 2.5-3 hours from Cleveland. Not exactly local. And I don't know the Cleveland market intimately like I do Columbus, so I'd like to find someone I can trust to help. 

The value is that I have learned the past few years that I'm better off using professionals to help me find and manage properties, while I focus on my highly time-consuming but well-compensated profession. I want the most 'passive' real estate portfolio possible, even if that comes at a cost of having a couple of others eating off my plate. 

At some point several years from now, I may retire from Corporate America and have more time to spend on acquisition and self management to reduce my overall costs. But for now the goal is 'passive as possible'. 

LOL yeah, I won't be doing that. 

For investors, non-BP reviews of PM companies on public forums are typically useless, because it's usually pissed off tenants who are complaining about things the PM is doing that I may want (like making them pay on time, late fees, evictions for dangerous dogs, etc...) . If I were following those, I wouldn't have my current PM (non-Cleveland market), who's very good. 

Does anyone here have experience with Holton-Wise Property Group? Both from an investment property acquisition perspective, and from a property management perspective? 

Feel free to PM me if you prefer to keep your opinion non-public. 

For nearly a decade the US has been operating on a shower of money from the Federal Reserve and global central bankers. The Fed is very slowly tuning that shower off and simultaneously ticking interest rates up. Eventually that could (or more likely 'will') impact appreciation and the 'fire' of the market....maybe slowly, possibly suddenly like the black swan of 2008/09. But at some point things won't look as rosy as they do right now.   

IMO, best thing investors can right now do is take a slow and steady approach. Think defensive. Invest cautiously and wisely. Diversify. Keep chugging forward (think in terms of a 'dollar cost averaging' approach), but now is probably not the time to take on large-scale portfolio risk or debt... that time was 7-8 years ago, and has long passed. 

I like what a previous poster said... Pick a reasonably priced market - hopefully you have some friends that live in a market where you'd want to invest (OKC, Cleveland, Texas, whatever) where you can visit for a few days and do some on-the-ground research. Or some short flight locations like inland CA (Fresno, Bakersfield)? New Mexico? Idaho? Don't vacation... use that time wisely.  Find a realtor who specializes in investments  ahead of time (people on BP can give you references) and view a few investible B-class areas/properties during your visit. Look for 1-4 unit properties. Then you can do everything else remotely... get some PM and local financing references.  

This may be time consuming, but it's most certainly a lower risk way to get your beak wet than syndication or flip funding or some other arrangement where you'll have to place your trust in others, plus I would assume that syndication/flip-funding deals in your area of CA would also have higher capital requirements than other US locations anyhow. You'll always be able to get into these other REIs down the road if you want. Plus you'll learn a lot more owning and setting up your own RE investment too.  

Happy hunting!

Certainly not insinuating that this would happen any time 'soon' (3-5 years). 

But once OSU gets a taste of that sweet, sweet housing income, there's nothing that makes me believe they are going to stop where they are. Just look at all the other land grabs, med center expansions, 'professional' sports program expansions, etc., etc. etc. they've executed in the last 2-3 decades. Basically the only thing OSU doesn't invest in anymore is inexpensive education for local kids.... they consciously nixed that mission statement years ago. 

I went to Ohio State over 30 years ago and loved the educational services they provided to the locals back then. Hate what they've become... but I'm a grumpy old fart and probably all large university systems act the same way now. It's the local kids who weren't born to wealthy parents who are ultimately suffering the burden of OSU's endless money grab.

Sorry to the original poster...  this thread has gone off the rails!!!!   :)   Sounds like @Elliot Adkins definitely knows his way around the district and could provide you some help if your interested in the university market. 

I've kept an eye on the University market and it 'seems' like I've seen more property being placed on the market there than recent years... and my 'assumptions' have been that its related to OSU's housing market grab. That said, my 'assumptions' are not hard data, and you probably have better data than I do.  

Campus rentals are not my market, but would be interested to learn more as more info comes out. OSU just rolled this out, so not sure if the effects have fully taken hold yet.  

I agree that if you don't have a job, or a spouse with a job, your first step should be to get another job. $40k won't take you far in this REI market if you have 4 mouths to feed every month, and being jobless won't help you get financing.

If you have a spouse with good income and you don't need to work to survive, then you actually have quite a lot of options (house hack, a $200k 1-4 unit, multiple cheap 1-4 units, partner on a larger multi-fam, etc.).