All Forum Posts by: Walt Payne

I don't find it surprising that it happens. I have seen a lot of unethical tactics, sleaze and dishonesty both in RE and in life.  Dishonesty and sleaze will happen, no matter what any of us say or do. I am not naive about that. I just don't think it is a tactic that should be promoted and sold to new investors as something to do. 

I also think that part of the problem overall is that getting ahead at any cost is placed above doing things right by too many people. It can get you there quicker, but it can also result in a faster and harder fall. I am not one to preach religion, but whatever your beliefs, I think the concept of karma is real.

I actually do give BP blogs a higher value, and credibility rating. Why? Specifically because there is a knowledgeable and experienced community whose members are not afraid to "call BS" when warranted and to question and discuss ethics and values, and to point out misinformation and mistakes. That doesn't mean they are gospel, and can be totally accepted as the right way. But it does mean that you are likely to at least get the opposing view. so that you can make an informed decision.

@Jon Holdman  Very well said. I respect and agree with your position totally. 

It comes down to a matter of intent and integrity. I feel if it is done ethically and with consideration of the seller's interests, then wholesaling without a realtor should be acceptable. Wholesaling is generally done on properties that are not retail ready, so there is really no reason to involve a realtor. But it should be done with the same integrity and disclosure. Double closings and other methods that hide the behind the scenes dealings are what make it all questionable, and why enforcement of licensing happens. 

@Jay Hinrichs  I also agree with your last post. The average retail buy probably does need representation on both sides to protect their interests. But the kind of properties that wholesalers are buying in general don't need representation. 

I can, however, see a possible need for licensing of a different level for wholesalers. More like how a contractor license works than a full blown realtor license. A combination basic ethics and legal practices control rather than representation of others. Maybe a third class of basic real estate license that does not require broker supervision, but is held accountable for their own actions?

@Jay Hinrichs  

I understand your point, and agree to an extent. But much of that sentiment involves turf wars as much as necessity. Too much of the regulation that happens is based on turf wars and protecting interests, though they start out with protecting the consumer in the beginning. 

I did not say lease option, I am speaking of an option to buy real estate within a specific time, with a non-refundable consideration paid up front. Purchase options are a legitimate part of contract law extending far beyond real estate, and assignment of contracts is also part of contract law.

@Roy N. 

I intend to get licensed as soon as I am living where I invest, it is not a matter of being unwilling but rather impractical at this point.

@Jon Holdman @James Wise  @Jay Hinrichs 

You all have expressed a strong opinion about this in the past, also. I am just curious if you are against those who wholesale using legit options to buy and assignment? In other words if I found a deal that I felt was good enough that I would put a legitimate consideration at risk, such as 5% of the purchase price. Isn't it then a valid assignment of a legal contract if I sell the right to that option? I am not talking the guru deals with a $10 payment and a dozen weasel clauses, I am talking a real option to buy that has a right of assignment.

Just curious where your objections lie.

A picture says 1,000 words ... I like having a file of before and after pics, along with comps showing the current value.  I also keep a folder with all receipts. Not for people like that, but for banks who ask those kinds of questions too. 

What you paid is not relevant. What if you overpaid? Would he be willing to pay a little more than you if you paid double what it's worth?

@Jon Klaus  The problem is that more people are working, but for less money. The average raise over the last few years has been horrible, not even keeping up with inflation or close. Profits are up significantly, wages aren't. Most workers have lost serious spending power over the last decade or more. 

And McDonalds and WalMart etc. continue to structure their wages and hours such that the taxpayers are subsidizing their employees so that they can make bigger profits for their shareholders.

There are a number of highly experienced and reputable DM people here. @Michael Quarles is one of the best in the business, and quite active here and always helpful when questions are asked about marketing.

I have bought and sold 4 personal properties, and a few investment properties and also worked for a rehabber where I was frequently involved in purchases. I have never played that game on either end of a deal. Negotiate the hidden items that couldn't be seen, the rest were known when the offer was made and are not negotiable after the contract was signed. I had one buyer try it, on disclosed items nonetheless.  So I explained my reasoning and when I didn't budge on the disclosed items he backed down. 

@Karen Margrave  I agree to an extent, except this is not a user blog, it is an official BP blog post. To me, that is a different thing altogether.