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All Forum Posts by: Virgil Moore
Virgil Moore has started 9 posts and replied 46 times.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
“One of the most powerful (yet underutilized) tools is business credit card stacking. It allows investors to access $50K–$250K in 0% interest funding—without putting personal assets at risk.”
So, for anyone who doesn’t completely understand, the above is part of the OPs original “post”/advertisement concerning business credit cards . As can be seen, he states that borrowing money via business credit cards does NOT place a borrower’s personal assets at risk. The issue is that this is just plain incorrect. The borrower signs a personal guarantee, which, in the event of default places all of their assets, including personal assets, at risk of being forfeited. When confronted with this, the OP chose to provide a convoluted reason as to why this risk was somehow less risky than providing specific collateral. In actuality this is more risky; with specific collateral, such as real property, the lender must hold a foreclosure sale and only the DEFICIENCY amount is subject to judgement; in most cases the borrower can sign a”deed in lieu” and receive a release from any additional liability. In an unsecured loan there is no property to liquidate; the lender will just obtain a judgement for the principal, back interest, legal fees, late fees, and costs and the borrower will owe that amount. Again, a totally incorrect statement by the OP.
Let me also state that I have been active on BP since 2009. I’ve seen many different types of participants. The ones most active across ALL forums always speak the truth as they see it. They maintain no bias to promote whatever aspect of real estate they’re involved in. They feel that by being truthful, with timely, sage advice their contribution will be recognized, and any business generated as such is merely a bonus.
Another type of participants is one whose first post is some kind of ad for a service or product they happen to be selling. Characteristically their posts read like an AI generated Google page, or a slick website from a Guru. The answer to any problem is the service they sell, whether it be life insurance, credit card stacking, subject to financing, hard money loans, wholesaling, or the even crazier versions, like “infinity banking” etc. It’s not that the service itself or method isn’t legit, it’s that misinformation usually concerning risks, applicability, pricing, etc. is being spread. When called out they ALWAYS resort to personal attacks, name calling, and convoluted reasoning.
If you go look at my VSL I speak about having to PG, you both are so worked up you must not be making any money. So you’re mad at me.
Do either of you know anybody personally (with proof) that has lost their assets from credit card debt?
You sound like a hypocrite for one because it doesn’t matter what funding option somebody chooses to use, there is a chance that the investment will or won’t work, that’s risk. That’s what being an entrepreneur is all about. You should know, you’re a hard money lender. And you don’t have to explain what debt collectors do, everyone knows debt is bought and sold. You’re making yourself look crazy but even saying what you’re saying.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
“One of the most powerful (yet underutilized) tools is business credit card stacking. It allows investors to access $50K–$250K in 0% interest funding—without putting personal assets at risk.”
So, for anyone who doesn’t completely understand, the above is part of the OPs original “post”/advertisement concerning business credit cards . As can be seen, he states that borrowing money via business credit cards does NOT place a borrower’s personal assets at risk. The issue is that this is just plain incorrect. The borrower signs a personal guarantee, which, in the event of default places all of their assets, including personal assets, at risk of being forfeited. When confronted with this, the OP chose to provide a convoluted reason as to why this risk was somehow less risky than providing specific collateral. In actuality this is more risky; with specific collateral, such as real property, the lender must hold a foreclosure sale and only the DEFICIENCY amount is subject to judgement; in most cases the borrower can sign a”deed in lieu” and receive a release from any additional liability. In an unsecured loan there is no property to liquidate; the lender will just obtain a judgement for the principal, back interest, legal fees, late fees, and costs and the borrower will owe that amount. Again, a totally incorrect statement by the OP.
Let me also state that I have been active on BP since 2009. I’ve seen many different types of participants. The ones most active across ALL forums always speak the truth as they see it. They maintain no bias to promote whatever aspect of real estate they’re involved in. They feel that by being truthful, with timely, sage advice their contribution will be recognized, and any business generated as such is merely a bonus.
Another type of participants is one whose first post is some kind of ad for a service or product they happen to be selling. Characteristically their posts read like an AI generated Google page, or a slick website from a Guru. The answer to any problem is the service they sell, whether it be life insurance, credit card stacking, subject to financing, hard money loans, wholesaling, or the even crazier versions, like “infinity banking” etc. It’s not that the service itself or method isn’t legit, it’s that misinformation usually concerning risks, applicability, pricing, etc. is being spread. When called out they ALWAYS resort to personal attacks, name calling, and convoluted reasoning.
If you go look at my VSL I speak about having to PG, you both are so worked up you must not be making any money. So you’re mad at me.
Do either of you know anybody personally (with proof) that has lost their assets from credit card debt?
Just for clarification, are you saying that ripping off lenders by defaulting on unsecured debt is a way to wealth?
Interesting. :-{
If you spent this same exact energy hating on me as you do in your own business maybe you’d be Bill Gates Jr by now.
I know of a lot of people that credit took them under in the GFC, that's all.
When you add "personally (with proof) that has lost their assets from credit card debt?""
Yeah, it's all there, in the bankruptcy court proceedings.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
“One of the most powerful (yet underutilized) tools is business credit card stacking. It allows investors to access $50K–$250K in 0% interest funding—without putting personal assets at risk.”
So, for anyone who doesn’t completely understand, the above is part of the OPs original “post”/advertisement concerning business credit cards . As can be seen, he states that borrowing money via business credit cards does NOT place a borrower’s personal assets at risk. The issue is that this is just plain incorrect. The borrower signs a personal guarantee, which, in the event of default places all of their assets, including personal assets, at risk of being forfeited. When confronted with this, the OP chose to provide a convoluted reason as to why this risk was somehow less risky than providing specific collateral. In actuality this is more risky; with specific collateral, such as real property, the lender must hold a foreclosure sale and only the DEFICIENCY amount is subject to judgement; in most cases the borrower can sign a”deed in lieu” and receive a release from any additional liability. In an unsecured loan there is no property to liquidate; the lender will just obtain a judgement for the principal, back interest, legal fees, late fees, and costs and the borrower will owe that amount. Again, a totally incorrect statement by the OP.
Let me also state that I have been active on BP since 2009. I’ve seen many different types of participants. The ones most active across ALL forums always speak the truth as they see it. They maintain no bias to promote whatever aspect of real estate they’re involved in. They feel that by being truthful, with timely, sage advice their contribution will be recognized, and any business generated as such is merely a bonus.
Another type of participants is one whose first post is some kind of ad for a service or product they happen to be selling. Characteristically their posts read like an AI generated Google page, or a slick website from a Guru. The answer to any problem is the service they sell, whether it be life insurance, credit card stacking, subject to financing, hard money loans, wholesaling, or the even crazier versions, like “infinity banking” etc. It’s not that the service itself or method isn’t legit, it’s that misinformation usually concerning risks, applicability, pricing, etc. is being spread. When called out they ALWAYS resort to personal attacks, name calling, and convoluted reasoning.
If you go look at my VSL I speak about having to PG, you both are so worked up you must not be making any money. So you’re mad at me.
Do either of you know anybody personally (with proof) that has lost their assets from credit card debt?
Just for clarification, are you saying that ripping off lenders by defaulting on unsecured debt is a way to wealth?
Interesting. :-{
If you spent this same exact energy hating on me as you do in your own business maybe you’d be Bill Gates Jr by now.
Post: Personal Credit + Business Credit Stacking vs. Hard Money for Fix & Flips—Which is Be
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Mira Atanasova:
We have taken the second approach for two of our deals and I have no regrets, even though we used our personal CC. We have utilized 0% balance transfer offers for minimum of 12 months for an average cost of 4% in an 8% mortgage interest rate environment. If we would go the hard money route, we would have paid that to just close the loan in origination fees and points and then pay 12% annual interest on top of that. I would go the second route any time the deal allows it.
They don’t want to hear this if it isn’t hard money. You’re the 4th person that said they used 0% interest cc’s to invest with and was successful at doing so. These guys are cherry picking, ignore them as I will do from now on! It went from 0% interest isn’t real to me supposedly saying that you don’t need to PG, Will if you have business credit you don’t. But if you don’t have business credit then you’ll need to PG. Also they’ve yet to tell me who they personally know who has lost their personal assets to credit card debt. It’ll usually just ruin your credit which is still horrible but it’s not what they preach. I’m starting to think it’s because of my melanin because why else are these guys so worked up? It isn’t paying them to comment long post that no one reads daily on MY post, it’s comical at this point.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Don Konipol:
“One of the most powerful (yet underutilized) tools is business credit card stacking. It allows investors to access $50K–$250K in 0% interest funding—without putting personal assets at risk.”
So, for anyone who doesn’t completely understand, the above is part of the OPs original “post”/advertisement concerning business credit cards . As can be seen, he states that borrowing money via business credit cards does NOT place a borrower’s personal assets at risk. The issue is that this is just plain incorrect. The borrower signs a personal guarantee, which, in the event of default places all of their assets, including personal assets, at risk of being forfeited. When confronted with this, the OP chose to provide a convoluted reason as to why this risk was somehow less risky than providing specific collateral. In actuality this is more risky; with specific collateral, such as real property, the lender must hold a foreclosure sale and only the DEFICIENCY amount is subject to judgement; in most cases the borrower can sign a”deed in lieu” and receive a release from any additional liability. In an unsecured loan there is no property to liquidate; the lender will just obtain a judgement for the principal, back interest, legal fees, late fees, and costs and the borrower will owe that amount. Again, a totally incorrect statement by the OP.
Let me also state that I have been active on BP since 2009. I’ve seen many different types of participants. The ones most active across ALL forums always speak the truth as they see it. They maintain no bias to promote whatever aspect of real estate they’re involved in. They feel that by being truthful, with timely, sage advice their contribution will be recognized, and any business generated as such is merely a bonus.
Another type of participants is one whose first post is some kind of ad for a service or product they happen to be selling. Characteristically their posts read like an AI generated Google page, or a slick website from a Guru. The answer to any problem is the service they sell, whether it be life insurance, credit card stacking, subject to financing, hard money loans, wholesaling, or the even crazier versions, like “infinity banking” etc. It’s not that the service itself or method isn’t legit, it’s that misinformation usually concerning risks, applicability, pricing, etc. is being spread. When called out they ALWAYS resort to personal attacks, name calling, and convoluted reasoning.
If you go look at my VSL I speak about having to PG, you both are so worked up you must not be making any money. So you’re mad at me.
Do either of you know anybody personally (with proof) that has lost their assets from credit card debt?
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Joe S.:
Virgil… The bigger pocket forms are quite unique. They tend to get a bit contentious from time to time. A new user probably would not know that until…..
Some posters try not to get into debates and other posters gravitate to them like a moth to the fire. And some of the folks that gravitate toward being contentious know quite a bit….
It probably seemed that people were ganging up on you and I guess they were. Lol.
I think one of the things that really caused some posters to become alarmed was the comment that business credit cards are not personally guaranteed. ( with all the business credit cards I’ve ever seen were personally guaranteed.) Which, if a person defaults on a card, it is almost a sure thing that it will get reported at the very least to the person’s credit report. Anyways, you seem to have a lot of spunk and I hope you do well in life. Remember some pushback can cause a person to reevaluate their product and learn it better and if they did not fully understand the product prior to they can make adjustments in their presentation. (I know it’s easier said than done so thanks for being patient with my little discourse.)
I'm not sure what company you're working for, but think about getting connected with a lender that offers long-term DSCR Loans. If not, you probably could partner with one at the very least as a referral. If a person takes down a property by Credit Card stacking they definitely need someone to help them get a long-term loan in place and pay off the credit cards as soon as possible.
Best regards
Joe my reason for chiming in was not really the CC teaser rates or business credit which is filled with a lot of shall I say not ready for prime time folks. Was simply spamming the site with about 3 or 4 of the same posts within about an hour of each other and clearly designed to drive business to himself.. U know in the old days of BP the post would have been taken down and the OP would be encouraged to purchase advertising space on BP. Which he should probably do if he wants to sell this product.
The other issue is like many are pointing out there is huge risk of going from 0% to 24% and finding one buried in CC debt.. I have clients that I rent our money to that use cards to fill the gap when doing rehabs.. but many are refinancing and fico is critical so one has to be careful.
Banks have unsecrued LOC's that are not reported I have two of them with different banks but these are VERY difficult to secured and require 6 figure deposit relationships to 7 figure deposit relationships.. So these Credit facilities exists 0% teasers exists they just can be quite dangerous for a newer or new flipper.. We see it all the time BP when folks run out of money on a flip :)
Jay, I appreciate your perspective, but I want to clarify a few things. My intent in posting wasn't to spam or push a product—it was to educate and offer a different financing perspective in a space that's largely dominated by hard money discussions. I made distinct posts tailored to different investor strategies (Fix & Flip vs. BRRRR) because different investors have different needs.
I also find it interesting that initially, many claimed 0% interest business credit was impossible, but now the conversation has shifted to acknowledging its risks instead. That tells me the skepticism isn’t about whether it works, but rather how it’s used—which is exactly why education is important. Yes, there’s risk in transitioning from 0% to a higher interest rate, but that’s true of any financing option, including hard money loans. Plenty of successful investors use business credit responsibly to scale their businesses without running into financial ruin.
I get that some people have had bad experiences with credit stacking, but that doesn’t mean it’s inherently a bad strategy—it just means it’s not the right fit for everyone, just like hard money isn’t. My goal isn’t to convince people to take unnecessary risks but to present an alternative option that has worked for many. I’m also not out here calling hard money a scam or saying business credit is the only way, yet I see plenty of people here dismissing business credit altogether while promoting their own preferred funding methods.
At the end of the day, every financing tool has its place, and investors need to be educated on how to use them properly. If someone isn’t comfortable with it, they shouldn’t use it—but that’s true for any financial decision. My goal is to contribute value, not spam the forum, and I’ll continue sharing insights that might help investors make informed choices.
Interesting, so you do this for free? Or do you make a commission for developing new leads? No shame in it, it's just nice to now up front where the motive is.
At best it's 2-faced.
To be more accurate it's lies, deception, distortion, manipulation......
And when the truth is drug out of you, it comes with insults and anger over having truth uncovered.
You justify your deceptive practices via holding an assumption "everyone else is doing it too". People rob banks every day too, doesn't make it ok. Not to mention NO not everyone is doing it, not even most, many, or even half.
This all started when you lied about the repercussions of stacking all these credit lines. You went out of your way to obfuscate the very important and significant detail of Personal Guarantee. You went to extent in arguing on it to NOT have it fully disclosed and comprehended.
When I am speaking to a crowd, on a webinar, in person 1-on-1 or here on BP discussing some investment or investment strategy I understand I also bear a burden of disclosure to the potential negative impactors. This is 101 to presenting such item of "education".
And the excuse of an assumption of a persons pre-existing knowledge of such is an oxymoron to your stated premise of educating people on something they don't know or are not aware of. They can't already know of the details of it when you have specified they don't know of it and your "educating" them of it. THUS you bear a burden of FULL disclosure.
If you had followed that, I don't think anyone would have had any issues. All the issues I have read are not "Errrr we sell hard-$ so we hate what your saying, errrrrr", no, it's been people CORRECTING the false and/or misleading information you stated and then calling for DISCLOSURE.
Dude, what are you talking about? When have I ever not said that someone wouldn’t have to PG? Stop commenting without knowing what your talking about! It shows the lack of intelligence on your part.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Virgil Moore:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Joe S.:
Virgil… The bigger pocket forms are quite unique. They tend to get a bit contentious from time to time. A new user probably would not know that until…..
Some posters try not to get into debates and other posters gravitate to them like a moth to the fire. And some of the folks that gravitate toward being contentious know quite a bit….
It probably seemed that people were ganging up on you and I guess they were. Lol.
I think one of the things that really caused some posters to become alarmed was the comment that business credit cards are not personally guaranteed. ( with all the business credit cards I’ve ever seen were personally guaranteed.) Which, if a person defaults on a card, it is almost a sure thing that it will get reported at the very least to the person’s credit report. Anyways, you seem to have a lot of spunk and I hope you do well in life. Remember some pushback can cause a person to reevaluate their product and learn it better and if they did not fully understand the product prior to they can make adjustments in their presentation. (I know it’s easier said than done so thanks for being patient with my little discourse.)
I'm not sure what company you're working for, but think about getting connected with a lender that offers long-term DSCR Loans. If not, you probably could partner with one at the very least as a referral. If a person takes down a property by Credit Card stacking they definitely need someone to help them get a long-term loan in place and pay off the credit cards as soon as possible.
Best regards
Joe my reason for chiming in was not really the CC teaser rates or business credit which is filled with a lot of shall I say not ready for prime time folks. Was simply spamming the site with about 3 or 4 of the same posts within about an hour of each other and clearly designed to drive business to himself.. U know in the old days of BP the post would have been taken down and the OP would be encouraged to purchase advertising space on BP. Which he should probably do if he wants to sell this product.
The other issue is like many are pointing out there is huge risk of going from 0% to 24% and finding one buried in CC debt.. I have clients that I rent our money to that use cards to fill the gap when doing rehabs.. but many are refinancing and fico is critical so one has to be careful.
Banks have unsecrued LOC's that are not reported I have two of them with different banks but these are VERY difficult to secured and require 6 figure deposit relationships to 7 figure deposit relationships.. So these Credit facilities exists 0% teasers exists they just can be quite dangerous for a newer or new flipper.. We see it all the time BP when folks run out of money on a flip :)
Jay, I appreciate your perspective, but I want to clarify a few things. My intent in posting wasn't to spam or push a product—it was to educate and offer a different financing perspective in a space that's largely dominated by hard money discussions. I made distinct posts tailored to different investor strategies (Fix & Flip vs. BRRRR) because different investors have different needs.
I also find it interesting that initially, many claimed 0% interest business credit was impossible, but now the conversation has shifted to acknowledging its risks instead. That tells me the skepticism isn’t about whether it works, but rather how it’s used—which is exactly why education is important. Yes, there’s risk in transitioning from 0% to a higher interest rate, but that’s true of any financing option, including hard money loans. Plenty of successful investors use business credit responsibly to scale their businesses without running into financial ruin.
I get that some people have had bad experiences with credit stacking, but that doesn’t mean it’s inherently a bad strategy—it just means it’s not the right fit for everyone, just like hard money isn’t. My goal isn’t to convince people to take unnecessary risks but to present an alternative option that has worked for many. I’m also not out here calling hard money a scam or saying business credit is the only way, yet I see plenty of people here dismissing business credit altogether while promoting their own preferred funding methods.
At the end of the day, every financing tool has its place, and investors need to be educated on how to use them properly. If someone isn’t comfortable with it, they shouldn’t use it—but that’s true for any financial decision. My goal is to contribute value, not spam the forum, and I’ll continue sharing insights that might help investors make informed choices.
Interesting, so you do this for free? Or do you make a commission for developing new leads? No shame in it, it's just nice to now up front where the motive is.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Joe S.:
Virgil… The bigger pocket forms are quite unique. They tend to get a bit contentious from time to time. A new user probably would not know that until…..
Some posters try not to get into debates and other posters gravitate to them like a moth to the fire. And some of the folks that gravitate toward being contentious know quite a bit….
It probably seemed that people were ganging up on you and I guess they were. Lol.
I think one of the things that really caused some posters to become alarmed was the comment that business credit cards are not personally guaranteed. ( with all the business credit cards I’ve ever seen were personally guaranteed.) Which, if a person defaults on a card, it is almost a sure thing that it will get reported at the very least to the person’s credit report. Anyways, you seem to have a lot of spunk and I hope you do well in life. Remember some pushback can cause a person to reevaluate their product and learn it better and if they did not fully understand the product prior to they can make adjustments in their presentation. (I know it’s easier said than done so thanks for being patient with my little discourse.)
I'm not sure what company you're working for, but think about getting connected with a lender that offers long-term DSCR Loans. If not, you probably could partner with one at the very least as a referral. If a person takes down a property by Credit Card stacking they definitely need someone to help them get a long-term loan in place and pay off the credit cards as soon as possible.
Best regards
Joe my reason for chiming in was not really the CC teaser rates or business credit which is filled with a lot of shall I say not ready for prime time folks. Was simply spamming the site with about 3 or 4 of the same posts within about an hour of each other and clearly designed to drive business to himself.. U know in the old days of BP the post would have been taken down and the OP would be encouraged to purchase advertising space on BP. Which he should probably do if he wants to sell this product.
The other issue is like many are pointing out there is huge risk of going from 0% to 24% and finding one buried in CC debt.. I have clients that I rent our money to that use cards to fill the gap when doing rehabs.. but many are refinancing and fico is critical so one has to be careful.
Banks have unsecrued LOC's that are not reported I have two of them with different banks but these are VERY difficult to secured and require 6 figure deposit relationships to 7 figure deposit relationships.. So these Credit facilities exists 0% teasers exists they just can be quite dangerous for a newer or new flipper.. We see it all the time BP when folks run out of money on a flip :)
Jay, I appreciate your perspective, but I want to clarify a few things. My intent in posting wasn't to spam or push a product—it was to educate and offer a different financing perspective in a space that's largely dominated by hard money discussions. I made distinct posts tailored to different investor strategies (Fix & Flip vs. BRRRR) because different investors have different needs.
I also find it interesting that initially, many claimed 0% interest business credit was impossible, but now the conversation has shifted to acknowledging its risks instead. That tells me the skepticism isn’t about whether it works, but rather how it’s used—which is exactly why education is important. Yes, there’s risk in transitioning from 0% to a higher interest rate, but that’s true of any financing option, including hard money loans. Plenty of successful investors use business credit responsibly to scale their businesses without running into financial ruin.
I get that some people have had bad experiences with credit stacking, but that doesn’t mean it’s inherently a bad strategy—it just means it’s not the right fit for everyone, just like hard money isn’t. My goal isn’t to convince people to take unnecessary risks but to present an alternative option that has worked for many. I’m also not out here calling hard money a scam or saying business credit is the only way, yet I see plenty of people here dismissing business credit altogether while promoting their own preferred funding methods.
At the end of the day, every financing tool has its place, and investors need to be educated on how to use them properly. If someone isn’t comfortable with it, they shouldn’t use it—but that’s true for any financial decision. My goal is to contribute value, not spam the forum, and I’ll continue sharing insights that might help investors make informed choices.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Joe S.:
Virgil… The bigger pocket forms are quite unique. They tend to get a bit contentious from time to time. A new user probably would not know that until…..
Some posters try not to get into debates and other posters gravitate to them like a moth to the fire. And some of the folks that gravitate toward being contentious know quite a bit….
It probably seemed that people were ganging up on you and I guess they were. Lol.
I think one of the things that really caused some posters to become alarmed was the comment that business credit cards are not personally guaranteed. ( with all the business credit cards I’ve ever seen were personally guaranteed.) Which, if a person defaults on a card, it is almost a sure thing that it will get reported at the very least to the person’s credit report. Anyways, you seem to have a lot of spunk and I hope you do well in life. Remember some pushback can cause a person to reevaluate their product and learn it better and if they did not fully understand the product prior to they can make adjustments in their presentation. (I know it’s easier said than done so thanks for being patient with my little discourse.)
I'm not sure what company you're working for, but think about getting connected with a lender that offers long-term DSCR Loans. If not, you probably could partner with one at the very least as a referral. If a person takes down a property by Credit Card stacking they definitely need someone to help them get a long-term loan in place and pay off the credit cards as soon as possible.
Best regards
Hey Joe, I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective on the BiggerPockets forums. I definitely noticed how discussions can get heated, but I welcome healthy debates and pushback—it only makes me sharper.
To clarify, I never stated that business credit cards don’t require a personal guarantee. In fact, I’ve been very clear that clients do need to PG their business credit to access these funding options. I’m highly knowledgeable about what I offer, as I’ve not only helped clients secure funding but have also used these strategies myself before launching FiFIN.
I completely agree that credit stacking should be paired with a solid exit strategy, and I do offer other funding solutions as well. But I continue to advocate for this method because it’s helped so many investors access capital when traditional lenders wouldn’t. Even in this very thread, an investor mentioned how they’ve successfully used credit for their deals.
That said, I appreciate you reaching out and giving me a better sense of how the forums operate. I look forward to contributing more and engaging in productive discussions.
Post: The #1 Funding Challenge Real Estate Investors Face—And How to Overcome It
- Lender
- Colorado Springs, CO
- Posts 48
- Votes 21
Quote from @Patience Echem:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Let me be clear on where I stand._
People who come to BP solely to post a promotional piece citing the advantages of the service or product they’re selling are dangerous to anyone not experienced in real estate and finance who may believe the “ad”.
It’s still an “ad” even if the poster calls it a “discussion” and even if they do not directly mention their ‘services” in the initial post (they hope someone “bites” and so they can mention on in follow up posts).
The danger is especially acute when the poster offering the service has very little experience and is new to this service. It is further dangerous when the poster offers misinformation, half truths and outright lies in their post.
This OP, as I pointed out in my previous post, “doubles|down” on the lie that
(1) personal assets are not at risk - they absolutely are as the OP admits, albeit with some non sensible justification about specific assets not being pledged
(2) protects personal credit - as already stated the personal guarantee necessary will affect the credit card holders credit capacity , and as such find its way to their credit report, and hence affect credit scoring.
(3) is lower risk - this may be the biggest lie of all. Financing a property with a loan that in 6 months charges interest of 19.8 - 24% is beyond risky - it’s suicidal. Unless the property is sold or refinanced, a large negative cash flow is all but guaranteed.
Can credit cards be used in certain situations with a reasonable chance of success? DEFINITELY, early in my career I did so myself. However those circumstances are limited to investors with the ability to refinance when the promotional rates terminate, or those who have a sale of the property in place.
And IF you desire a business credit card, all you have to do is do a Google search, and APPLY for the ones offering the most advantageous deals. No need to pay this clown 10 - 15%, for his non existent “consulting” services (by someone with 60 days experience).
I am new to real estate and consider myself one that would fall for information that is meant to sale me on something even though it is packaged as education. I am grateful for people like you who know enough to ask clarifying questions, present a different perspective, add to the information, and even correct misleading information, but reading a post that demeans the presenter raises my antenna, releases mighty stress hormones which block my learning. If your goal is to teach and protect us, please do it in a way that actually encourage learning. Civil and respectful discussion will be the way. Anything beyond that, defeats the purpose.
What is is, I’m on a forum filled with hard money lenders, that’s the only problem. These gentlemen are saying it’s “wrong” to use business credit to fund real estate deals because the borrower might default like they can’t do the same with hard money lol. Make it make sense. They don’t want others using different methods. A gentleman just posted on this very post that he uses credit to fund deals…at 0% interest. It’s because hard money could never lol. My suggestion for you is to look into what business credit is yourself don’t listen to hard money lenders about something they don’t deal with. Especially because their bias.