All Forum Posts by: Tim Upton

@Patrick O'Connell $7k to delead and then a couple more to wrap the exterior window trim in metal to prevent all that deleading.

I recently went through a delead on a unit in a two-family building in MA and did a lot of research as it was my first time going through the process. I talked to a couple inspectors to educate myself and they both told me that if there were any areas on the exterior that they couldn't access and they visually observed peeling paint they would have to flag it. However, I was under the impression that this only applied to "chewable" or "mouthable" areas such as windows. I ended up getting all my windows wrapped in metal before I had it tested. Then when the inspector came he didn't flag any of the peeling paint up on my exterior soffits.  

My unit had lead all over it but we went through the process and now have a lead compliance cert (basically means that there's lead in the property but it's all encapsulated and safe). I had an abatement contractor do what needed to be done based off the test report in order to get the cert. It was a scraping/painting a handful of door jambs, couple window sills, and some stairs. Cost around $5200 plus the testing at the beginning and after abatement was complete. The cost of each test was around $600. 

Regarding the high cost of the abatement process, my understanding is that it is mostly labor for the intense cleaning they need to do after the abatement. The final test is called a "swab test" and they come and take X number of swabs and swipe them on surfaces throughout the unit. Then they test those swabs for any sign of lead. So the abatement contractor is responsible for literally cleaning every service of the unit before the testing agency comes in for the swab test. 

Again, this was my first time dealing with lead abatement but that was a summary of my experience. I'd also say the whole process is slightly shady and I received a lot of conflicting information when I talked to different folks (inspectors, abatement contractors,  etc). Seems like there's a big push by the state of MA to get more properties deleaded so hopefully that leads to a more transparent process in the future.

Welcome Joe! You’re wife was right, BP is an invaluable resource. I definitely recommend checking out their podcasts as well. What areas are you looking in? My W-2 is commercial project management and I’ve been doing a lot of work in One Kendall Sq lately. Feel free to DM me, I’m no expert but have one multifamily and listing a 2-year live in flip this Summer. I’m always happy to chat! Good luck!

I’m a contractor but for me it’s a time thing. $500 is short money to pay an inspector to go spend a day looking at my property and then prepping a report. Albeit I believe the value add to be small since I generally have a good eye for issues, it is a risk control measure I’m willing to spend on. In certain cases it can be a leverage tool to negotiate the seller down as well. That being said, I have and will again waive inspections to get a deal done. It’s worth noting I’m generally looking at properties that I plan on doing extensive work to so if there’s no pest damage or structural issues then I’m good. I imagine it’s a different story if you’re buying turnkey and don’t have a healthy rehab budget... Good luck!

Thanks @Robert Loiselle for the advice. We'll bite the bullet and get it tested. Maybe it won't be as expensive as the ballpark #s we've been told. Thanks again! 

@Ron Ramsden I've been in construction most of my life and somehow I've never had to deal with de-leading. I'm very familiar with all other construction costs but when I started researching the cost to de-lead I couldn't believe it. It seems like the legislation is based around the goal of making the de-lead process easier which in theory will result in more de-leaded homes. However, the cost seems disproportionate to the overall project cost. Like I mentioned above, if this costs us $25k then that'll bust our budget by 25% (original budget $100k). It's on me for missing that in my budget, but my point is that it's nuts that  as an investor/landlord in MA, you have to incur a 25% cost for an activity that doesn't put any work into place. It's purely added scope. I'll still have to go in after and paint everything they abate. I'll definitely get it done but just a little surprised by this one. Live and learn I guess. 

My wife and I recently bought a large (3,000sf), unoccupied two family in northern Massachusetts. I'll round the numbers for the purpose of this discussion but basically we paid $440k for the property and have a planned reno budget of $100k. The actually reno will cost around $90k and we held on to the rest as a small contingency/change order fund. Given the location of the property and the town, it's a great property for tenants with young families. 

The property was constructed in 1906 so there's likely lead paint on at least one of the 3 floors of the building (although nothing has been officially tested). We're willing to spend a chunk of change to have the lead abated and get a lead cert just to avoid any gray area regarding tenants with young children. However, the costs we've been quoted seem very high. Having a hygienist come in and test is step one and that'll run us about $700. Then, assuming lead is detected, we need to have an abatement company come in. Once they abate any lead they find, they need to clean the ENTIRE building in order to provide a clean air cert. We've been told the abatement/cleaning will cost a minumum of $10k but likely closer to $25k. 

My question for anyone out there that has been in this position before is - what are our options? We want to be responsible landlords and see value in having a Delead Cert on file. It could've been an oversight on our part but we did not expect the deleading costs to be close to 25% of our total reno cost! It would be cheaper to replace all the doors/door jambs, window sills, etc rather than go with the deleading process described above. But according to the abatement contractors we've talked to, they cautioned us against demoing all the expected lead materials and installing new. The mentioned potential fines and told us even if we did demo/replace ourselves then we'd still need a lead test at the end of the reno to get a lead cert and if we missed even one spot they'd need to abate and clean the whole house, leading us back to square one. 

What're our legal options here? I mean, I know what the MA gov website recommends but is it actually common practice to spend that kind of money on every rental property you purchase that has lead in it? Any help, advice, resources, etc would be greatly appreciated. We spent over a year looking for this property and nailed the reno budget in every other aspect, but if we have to spend $25k on lead abatement then that will wipe out over a year's worth of CF....

How do you guys handle lead paint in your rentals?

Victor Gutierrez thanks for the response. That's exactly what we're thinking. With investment properties there are limited options to "realize appreciation" without selling the property. It's not like the stock market where you can sell half your shares to lower your exposure and cap the risk of a downturn. The duplex wouldn't have the same appreciation potential but with the market being where it is we feel a lot more comfortable with a higher cash flow and less exposure to all the equity we've enjoyed disappearing. Not that I think there's a bear market coming, but need to capture that appreciation!

Thank you both @Jen Kenely and @Mike Abramowitz. I'll PM you both. 

First post:

My wife and I are getting ready to list our 824sf 2bed,1bath condo in South Boston, MA. We're working with a realtor we've worked with before and trust but I'm looking for other opinions on this particular market. The CMA our realtor came up with is $449-459k (we paid $275k in 2012). That figure works well for us but what do other people think about the South Boston market? There are only a couple other properties on the market for under $550k. And neither of those were used in our realtor's CMA. He basically comped it against the $550k properties then took what appears to be a subjective discount based on exact neighborhood. I don't want to be greedy by any means and don't want it to sit on the market, but no one wants to leave money on the table. How can you be sure without any good comps?

For context, this is our only rental property and currently cashflows close to $750/mth and we're looking to capture the massive appreciation, free up all the equity which is roughly $200k (currently have heloc but as investment prop could only get a line for 25% of equity), and use the cash to purchase a few other properties outside of the crazy Boston market. The kicker to all this is we've lived in the unit 2 of the last 5 years so we can avoid capital gains by selling in the next year. 

We're waiting to hear back on an offer we made on a duplex outside of the city. If that offer is accepted than we'll have better CF than the one Southie condo and it will tie up a lot less cash so we can continue to expand. So goal is to sell Southie condo, use around 30% of proceeds to purchase a duplex with higher cash flow, and invest the rest in other properties. Regardless, that's our expansion strategy and motivation for selling and I'd love opinions on how pricing works in this market or similarly hot ones. 

Thanks in advance!