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All Forum Posts by: Tim Mieney

Tim Mieney has started 12 posts and replied 37 times.

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65

@Humad Syed

I like using niche.com or city-data to get an idea of income levels, population growth, crime levels etc. Also "walking" the neighborhood of the subject property on Google maps street view is a decent way to get a feel for the area (assuming the pictures are updated). Using the search feature here on BP in the forums and seeing if anyone else is talking about that market is also a good place to start.

Finally, doing your own deal analysis/underwriting and making sure the deal still works under less than ideal circumstances is a must. If you need a deal analysis spreadsheet feel free to DM me and I can send you a really good one I use.

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65

@Seth Young Helps to have a great support system of others that will encourage us!

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65

@Adam Sieg Appreciate your feedback. Do you feel Cape Coral is still a good option at this point in time for someone like me considering a new build?

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65
Quote from @Jeffery P.:

Thank you Tim for sharing your DD, I have been doing research as well and am still on the fence as well.  One thing I've learned is that if something looks too good to be true it probably is.  With that being said I also recognize my own fault in analysis/paralysis.  I will emphasize that Zach with R2R has been extremely responsive and that is key for me.

Jeff


 Wise words, sir. If you've done enough DD and the only thing holding you back from something is the fear of what could go wrong, that's not the way to be. But if there are true red flags, you most definitely do not want to ignore them. 

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65
Quote from @Bruce Lynn:

One thing I don't often like about many of the TK companies is the types/age/location/schools of the homes they pitch.

Everything of course looks good day 1, but I expect these are often in areas that have the worst appreciation, the worst tenants, the highest capital expenses over the long haul.   That's one thing they don't tell you I expect.

Do you ever go visit the locations, or google street view the neighborhood for the pitches they are making to you?

Some people like those areas though.


 That's fair. I am just starting to dive into Turn Key companies. I don't love the idea of purchasing at market value, but it's definitely nice to have cashflow from day one and snag renovated, off market deals that otherwise would likely go for over asking...

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65
Quote from @Hunter Terryn:

It was great chatting with you @Tim Mieney, and look forward to staying connected with you on your journey!


 Yessir! Looking forward to continuing the conversation.

Post: My Turn Key Company Due Diligence (Reposted)

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65

Hey BP Fam! First one was deleted. I'm assuming because I used links. Reposting now without them. Here we go...

After deciding I wanted to explore out of state investing, I spent the last week meeting with several "Turn Key" companies that I located thanks to Bigger Pockets. After multiple meetings/emails with most of them and further Due Diligence, I figured I'd lay out my opinions and some general information on these companies and the services they offer. I know many here want to be in Real Estate but would prefer a little bit more "hand holding." I believe each of these companies offers their own pros and cons to solving that problem for investors who are looking to be as "passive" as possible. Here are the companies I have connected with and done a fair amount of due diligence on:

REI Nation: I'd consider these guys to be a step up from something like Fundrise. You own the actual deed to the house, but outside of that they are really handling everything for you (at a price). They've got over 7,000 doors under management and are truly a one stop shop for an almost 100% turnkey Real Estate investing experience. I really like that they have their own in house management and are not relying on third party companies. Their whole operation seems very well vertically integrated, which I believe would make for a much more universally cohesive operation and investor experience. They sell you turn key, rehabbed and rented properties at (or sometimes a little above) market value with instant cash flow but zero equity at day one. You can expect to see 5-8% cash on cash returns from their deals after all expenses, management fees, debt service etc. The benefit here, unlike investing in a REIT or something like Fundrise is you have the advantage of a tangible asset purchased with leverage that provides cash flow, appreciation, depreciation and debt pay down from tenants. All in all, of the Turn Key options, I personally got an incredible vibe from REI Nation. Their management fee was 10% of rents collected if memory serves.

Rent to Retirement: Essentially the same situation as REI Nation except instead of in house management, they connect you with third party management in various markets. Whereas REI Nation earns most of their money on the management side of things, Rent to Retirement earns their money on the initial sale (when you buy the property from them). They take on all the risk buying distressed properties, rehabbing them, renting them etc. then you as the end buyer purchase a cash flowing property from them at market value. In my opinion, just like REI Nation the asking prices on their active inventory list are a bit steep, but I'm also not an expert in all these markets. For the service they provide and the ability to have a cash flowing property handed to you on a silver platter, the price may be well worth it. Additionally, Rent to Retirement is the only Turn Key company I've found that also offers New Construction opportunities where you have the ability to get in on the ground floor and take advantage of a potential equity capture prior to the property being built and rented. Their management fees were 7-8% of rents collected depending on the property type and they negotiate these fees with the chosen management company in each market. I'm currently doing some very thorough DD on their Cape Coral new construction opportunities and am happy to share what I've learned thus far for anyone interested. I also must say that Zach Lemaster has been very present here on the forums and also willing to pick up the phone and answer any questions I have about R2R, which I believe speaks volume to his desire to meet and exceed his investors' expectations.


The following three companies have a slightly different approach to the "turn key" model and are basically offering the same kind of service, but simply all in different markets. They work with you from acquisition (based on your desired property criteria), through the rehab process, leasing, and finally management or sale. What I like about these companies is they're not selling you a turnkey rental and charging you a premium. They're simply making money as your agent when you buy or sell and as your management company through the day to day operations. All three of these companies have their own in house management, which is always my preference if I have the option.

Evernest (Multiple Markets): I spoke with Hunter at Evernest and we immediately hit it off. We spoke for almost an hour and from start to finish I felt like I had known him for years. Very personable, very knowledgeable and also provided me insight on some Markets in FL since he grew up there prior to moving to Birmingham. Hunter filled me in on some personal deals he's done in Birmingham and why he believes it's a very strong real estate market. What I like about Evernest is that they're in multiple markets around the country and their management fees are tiered and incredibly reasonable. Management fees start at 8% of rents collected, but they also have flat monthly fee options starting as low as $89/month. After our conversation I am doing more DD on Birmingham as I believe it could be an incredible market over the next ten years (and I've now got a connection to an agent). I will also be exploring the other markets Evernest offers services in.

Boise Turnkey (Boise Idaho): I spoke with Corby at Boise Turnkey. He was extremely professional, personable and I felt his understanding of the market in Boise was extremely thorough. Their management fee is 9% of rents collected with no extra leasing fees or project management fees. Per our conversation, Corby did mention that Boise is not the best cash flow market, but an excellent appreciation market. I'd strongly consider them if you're looking to invest in and around Boise. I'm not sure this meets my criteria at this time as I really like to find a sweet spot between cash flow and appreciation.

Turnkey Invest (Memphis, Tennessee): I spoke with James at Turnkey Invest and even though he was 30 minutes late for our call he made up for it with his incredibly down to earth demeanor and friendly attitude. The vibe I got from James and Turnkey Invest was that they're running a wholesome, family oriented operation. He also mailed me a couple T-Shirts, a handwritten letter and a brochure with some additional details on their company and the market in Memphis. I thought this was an incredible gesture considering the postage alone was $10. Does it make me want to immediately invest in Memphis? Not necessarily, but if I decide I want to be in Memphis I know who I'm calling now because I can see James and his team go above and beyond for their investors. Their management fees are escaping me at the moment, but I believe they were between 8-10% of rents collected. James stated that Memphis can be a bit hard to navigate as the "good" areas are a bit all over the place and it really depends on the street. All in all, I personally feel Memphis could be a strong up and coming market and I'm strongly considering it and Turnkey Invest at this point in time.

As an active investor here in Western, NY who is used to self managing 19 units, I personally am leaning more towards companies like Boise Turnkey, Turnkey Invest or Evernest. I'd like to have more of an out of state "team" and not simply buy turn key properties at market value. I feel these companies provide a one stop shop with all the necessary boots on the ground that out of state investors would need to be successful. I am also very much considering the Build to Rent opportunities that Rent to Retirement is offering and have spoken with other investors who have had great success with this model. Granted, we've had an amazing couple years of appreciation (especially in Florida) that could slow down or have a correction, so I'm not breaking out my check book just yet.

That's all the information I have thus far. I hope someone will find value in this. If you have any questions, feel free to comment, message me, connect with me etc. I love meeting new people and encouraging them towards their goals. All the best, BP Fam.

Post: Rent to Retirement?

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65
Quote from @Zach Lemaster:

@Pretty Khare can you share your numbers on how you are calculating that?  I'm showing that the cash flow is still very positive (over $200 a month) with interest rates at 6.5% & rents staying the same at $2,400 a month (which we are already seeing rents go up beyond that in the $2,500 to $2,600 range).  Surely a year from now when the home is completed rents will be much higher if the market continues as it currently is.  All in all, I think the cash flow still makes sense, especially in a market that has higher appreciation, strong rental demand on a brand new built home that will attract quality tenants & have minimal maintenance.  Also, we are working on reducing the mngt fees with our mngt partners to allow for more cash flow.  They are open to the idea since new construction is very easy to manage with builder warranties in place to handle all maintenance.  As you stated, if the cash flow is not as attractive as you anticipate, you can always liquidate the property for a gain to reinvest elsewhere.  Everyone that has completed a build so far has had a tremendous amount of equity & many have elected to sell instead of hold just to cash in on the equity.  Even though I recommend holding for a year to 1031, or doing a cash out refi.  ; )


 Lower management fees would be ideal. I had this same thought... They're new builds and I'm guessing we're locking these tenants in for 24 months to start. Not a whole lot to do on their part, which should be reflected in the management rates. That will likely be a huge factor when considering to sell or rent after completion. 

Post: Private Equity Structures

Tim MieneyPosted
  • Investor
  • Rochester, NY
  • Posts 43
  • Votes 65
Quote from @Ethan Wagner:

@Angus Brooks I work for a large developer where we are doing deals $40 million+ on multifamily. We always do limited partnership structures.

You would be the general partner (GP), and would bring 3% - 7% of the required equity. You would manage the partnership for a 1% asset management fee, which includes doing all of the legwork from acquisition to disposition and refinances, and accounting. You could also charge an acquisition/ developer fee, usually 2-4% of the purchase price + capex. As the GP, you could hire a property manager and they would charge 3%, or, you could manage it yourself and charge 3%. There are many different ways to structure the waterfall, but typically under this structure there is a level called "promote". Promote occurs when your investors (limited partners or LPs) have received all of their preferred return and capital back. Once you hit the promote, the GP splits the distributable cash with the LP's, usually 50/50, but you can negotiate any split that you want.

The LP's are meant to be passive investors and will require a preferred rate of return (pref). Depending on the nature of the deal, and the type of limited partner investor (high net worth individual vs. institutional partner) the pref rate is usually 6-12%.

Like I said, the pref and promote splits are all negotiable. Also, the type of cash flow and how that gets applied to the waterfall is negotiable as well. I've seen deals where only cash flow from refinances or sales will pay capital balances and pref, while operating cash flow will only pay down accrued pref and the remainder gets split with the GP.

I hope this helps. I'm putting together deals for my company where we use this structure, but I am also using this on my own investments on a much smaller scale. If you have any questions please and hesitate to reach out.


 Does a limited partnership fall into the same realm and sec regulations as Syndication and require a PPM?