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All Forum Posts by: Thomas O'Donnell

Thomas O'Donnell has started 92 posts and replied 230 times.

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Osazee Edebiri:
Quote from @Thomas O'Donnell:
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Thomas O'Donnell:

What's up BP fam!

I am looking to move and buy my first house-hack soon in Columbus, OH (and rent out a room or two). When going through some numbers on many properties, I always have a high negative CoC return and negative cash flow. I understand this is due to the low down payment and properties not meeting the 1% rule. However, it seems that Columbus is a great appreciation market which I am okay with in order to pull out that equity in the future via a HELOC for another investment property. Since I am using FHA, it has to be a turn-key property which won't allow for me to do a value add. Does anyone have some advice about the numbers when dealing with an appreciation market instead of a cash flow one? Or any pointers on what I could possibly do differently? I really don't want to mess up on my first deal.

Thanks to all who respond!


Are you including the value of your living space in the calculation? If the unit you occupy would normally rent for $800 a month, that should be counted as income. In fact, I recommend you actually charge yourself $800 rent each month so (a) you force yourself to save for the next investment and (b) you get a clear picture of how the property performs as an investment and can demonstrate that to a lender, buyer, etc.


 This is a good idea! Thanks!

 Many people move out of state for affordability, and while yes things are typically cheaper out of state, average wages are less too. One of the reasons many people in California can invest in large amounts out of state is because they have high paying jobs, like the numerous tech workers, that live here in the Bay. 

Double check that your income isn't going to be lessened by moving out of state. If it is, compare saving to house hack here vs Columbus. I have a house hack in San Jose, if I add the money I am saving not paying rent, I cash flowing about $200 a month. Once my PMI comes off (Have had this house two years) I will be around $480 a month. The house has appreciated over $300K, that's almost double the median home value in Colobums.

Californian house hack = Scale faster


I appreciate this take on it! But I do not work in tech and I wouldn’t come close to having a 6 figure salary over here. I do not currently have a degree either. Also for reference, the jobs I could get where I’m at are $23-$26 and in Columbus it’s $20-23… so in reality yes I may make a couple dollars less, but even then with Columbus being so much more affordable, not only can I get into a property via house hacking but also have a good chunk of change left over each month. In the Bay Area of you don’t work In tech or work for a big company, you’re living check to check or working multiple jobs.  

Post: I'm Finally Moving! Looking to Network in Columbus, OH

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188

What's up everyone! 

I'm moving to Columbus, OH on July 22nd to start my REI journey via house-hacking! I am originally from California and have lived here my whole life. After realizing that I had been stuck in the rat race for a few years I decided enough was enough. I fell in love with the idea of using real estate to obtain financial freedom and build my future wealth. I have spent hundreds of hours listening to podcasts, reading books and trying to stay on top of market trends. It took some digging and many market changes but I finally settled on Columbus. I feel that there is great potential here and those that are overlooking Columbus might miss out in the future. Although some people have given me crap for wanting to leave California to invest in Columbus, I truly believe that I have found a future gem and am making the right choice. I'm very excited to make this move and purchase my first investment property. Currently, I'm looking for fellow investors/agents/property managers/lenders to connect with in the area. I would love to start building a network of like minds over there!

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Thomas O'Donnell:

What's up BP fam!

I am looking to move and buy my first house-hack soon in Columbus, OH (and rent out a room or two). When going through some numbers on many properties, I always have a high negative CoC return and negative cash flow. I understand this is due to the low down payment and properties not meeting the 1% rule. However, it seems that Columbus is a great appreciation market which I am okay with in order to pull out that equity in the future via a HELOC for another investment property. Since I am using FHA, it has to be a turn-key property which won't allow for me to do a value add. Does anyone have some advice about the numbers when dealing with an appreciation market instead of a cash flow one? Or any pointers on what I could possibly do differently? I really don't want to mess up on my first deal.

Thanks to all who respond!


Are you including the value of your living space in the calculation? If the unit you occupy would normally rent for $800 a month, that should be counted as income. In fact, I recommend you actually charge yourself $800 rent each month so (a) you force yourself to save for the next investment and (b) you get a clear picture of how the property performs as an investment and can demonstrate that to a lender, buyer, etc.


 This is a good idea! Thanks!

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Reggie Powell:

@Thomas O'Donnell

Are you planning on moving to Columbus Ohio from Santa Clara? Why? What is the draw of Columbus? Have you looked into deals in California at all? There are deals here, too. Not only cash flow but appreciation. You would be very hard pressed to get a “turn key” investment here, but a significant part of the upside in the investment is the “value add” or additions/renovations you put into the property. For most, real estate investing is a slow game. Buy a couple properties a year from a strong financial standpoint. Cash flow is good, but in my opinion, it just helps to fuel your journey towards wealth building. It shouldn’t be a deal breaker. If it’s a deal, buy it. If it isn’t, don’t.


 I have nowhere near enough money to invest in California and I'm kind of sick of living here. I'm not a fan of many things about this state, it is also very pricey to get started. I don't work in tech or a major industry so I don't have a high income. The population growth, job growth and the affordability of Columbus has been driving me there.

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:
Quote from @Thomas O'Donnell:
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Why are you buying RE?...any RE?  What are you goals?


 Building wealth for the long term. I plan on buying and holding everything. I want my freedom back and I want to be able to have a family in a few years and actually spend time with my kids as well as building their future.

Then why are you ever thinking about buying anything that starts you out by setting you backwards...and has no guarantee of any recovery from it.  I would never, ever, buy any property that sets my starting point losing from the start.
Building wealth means building it...not breaking it, then trying to fix it, then building with what you have at that time.  You're wasting time, which you can never recover.

Holding properties loses money.  It's basic math.  The property isn't what you are buying, the equity and cash flow is.  The property is nothing more than the temporary resting place for your equity and CF, until you move it to a much better place.  Sitting on that money gives you a linear return.  Moving it, gets you an exponential return, and there is nothing in this world that is more powerful than the power of compounding.  Just ask Einstein.  OK, you can't, but you don't need to...because someone already did.  HE described "compound interest" as the greatest invention of the 20th century.  What he said after that was more important.



I am not planning on staying in that property forever. I will eventually move out and rent it out, do a HELOC to get into a bigger multifamily property and so on until I have many doors.

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Joe Villeneuve:

Why are you buying RE?...any RE?  What are you goals?


 Building wealth for the long term. I plan on buying and holding everything. I want my freedom back and I want to be able to have a family in a few years and actually spend time with my kids as well as building their future.

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188

Love these responses, thank you!

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Thomas O'Donnell:

What's up BP fam!

I am looking to move and buy my first house-hack soon in Columbus, OH (and rent out a room or two). When going through some numbers on many properties, I always have a high negative CoC return and negative cash flow. I understand this is due to the low down payment and properties not meeting the 1% rule. However, it seems that Columbus is a great appreciation market which I am okay with in order to pull out that equity in the future via a HELOC for another investment property. Since I am using FHA, it has to be a turn-key property which won't allow for me to do a value add. Does anyone have some advice about the numbers when dealing with an appreciation market instead of a cash flow one? Or any pointers on what I could possibly do differently? I really don't want to mess up on my first deal.

Thanks to all who respond!

From an outsiders view, I’d expect Columbus, Ohio to be a relatively strong cash flow market.

I’d analyze deals for cash flow under two circumstances:

1) You live in the property as a house hacker. 

2) The unit is fully rented, and you have moved out.

In case 2, I’d demand cash flow in Columbus. In case 1, I’d just expect to pay less to live than as a renter or a homeowner with no tenants. 



Hey Scott! So yes I will be living in it (SFH- 3 bedroom) and probably renting out a room or two. I really wanted a duplex but I kinda got priced out of that. So I definitely would be saving on rent and have my mortgage either mostly covered or fully covered (if I can get roomates). There are many houses in the $140k-$160k range but the highest rents are in the areas is $1300. Obviously I can offer less so that it is a better deal, but where it stands nothing meets the 1% rule. Unfortunately I am not the best at running numbers but have ben trying to get better.

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Still Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188

What's up BP fam!

I am looking to move and buy my first house-hack soon in Columbus, OH (and rent out a room or two). When going through some numbers on many properties, I always have a high negative CoC return and negative cash flow. I understand this is due to the low down payment and properties not meeting the 1% rule. However, it seems that Columbus is a great appreciation market which I am okay with in order to pull out that equity in the future via a HELOC for another investment property. Since I am using FHA, it has to be a turn-key property which won't allow for me to do a value add. Does anyone have some advice about the numbers when dealing with an appreciation market instead of a cash flow one? Or any pointers on what I could possibly do differently? I really don't want to mess up on my first deal.

Thanks to all who respond!

Post: Negative CoC return/Cash Flow... Could This Work?

Thomas O'DonnellPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Columbus, OH
  • Posts 231
  • Votes 188

What's up BP fam!

I am looking to move and buy my first house-hack soon in Columbus, OH (and rent out a room or two). When going through some numbers on many properties, I always have a high negative CoC return and negative cash flow. I understand this is due to the low down payment and properties not meeting the 1% rule. However, it seems that Columbus is a great appreciation market which I am okay with in order to pull out that equity in the future via a HELOC for another investment property. Since I am using FHA, it has to be a turn-key property which won't allow for me to do a value add. Does anyone have some advice about the numbers when dealing with an appreciation market instead of a cash flow one? Or any pointers on what I could possibly do differently? I really don't want to mess up on my first deal.

Thanks to all who respond!