All Forum Posts by: Stewart VanValkenburg

I wanted to let everyone get their say in first before changing the time. It looks like the evenings have it. Changing the time to 5:00-7:00 pm.  I look forward to seeing you there :)

I'll shift it to an evening time if that works for more people. Let me know.

Hey guys. A lot of people want to do a meet up around here so let's do it! March 28 from 12:00 to 1:30 at the Village Inn in Provo. 933 S University Ave, Provo, UT 84606. Come and talk about your deals and meet other like minded investors in the area.

I've been living in Utah for the last 15 years but I grew up in Ohio. Already doing the house hacking thing and want to make my next investment.  I've been looking back at Ohio and found what I think is a good deal half an hour from where I grew up. 

Listed Price 90k

Gross Rents 5.2k

Units: 10

With an initial investment of 25% I would put down 22.5k. Following the 50% rule for expenses the NOI would be 31.2k. After the mortgage payments it would be around 25k for a cash on cash return of 110%

So what's the catch?

It's in a D class neighborhood. Average unemployment is 15%. Average income is 36k. The real estate agent who's job it is to sell it said she wouldn't buy in that neighborhood for investment purposes. The place has been for sale for a year. No pictures of the inside.

I've requested the rent rolls and last two years of expenses and I'll post them when I get them. My question is 'how much more should I anticipate the expenses for a Class D investment?'

75% of Gross Rents for expenses would still put me at a 47% coc return.

Well, all the research was irrelevant. None of the houses made it to market. The unimproved land did, but that is bid up through normal methods. But thanks for all your advice guys. It was appreciated.

I emailed this question to the county assessor and he said, "

The liens question is tricky and the scenario you are describing has not happened yet. The best answer I could give you in that situation is that you would need to contact a real estate attorney and immediately take whatever actions in a court to secure your interest.

The only action the county takes is the notification of the parties that have a recorded interest, the sale of the property, and the issuance of the tax deed. Whatever steps that you, as the winning bidder, would need to take to secure your interest are up to you. Beyond the notification and the sale, the county is not empowered within the law to anything more than that."

@William Hochstedler

I got this from the FAQ link #9.

http://www.co.utah.ut.us/TaxSale/FAQ.asp

This is a new provision that wasn't around last year. The land lots still go at the typical bid up type auction. I've researched the quiet title stuff but thanks for the heads up. I am hesitant to go to a lawyer because since this is new this year none of them have experience in it. Also, I went to a lawyer before and he gave me and he gave me a weird answer. I checked it with the county assessor, who runs the tax sale, and found out his answer was a bunch of baloney. 

I agree Bruce, best case scenario is 100% ownership. It would take 4 years of not paying taxes for it to go to the tax sale again. I don't want to share the ownership, I'd try to mediate for a sale and if that didn't work I'd file for a partition. I talked to a lawyer about that and he said it could be up to 30k and a year. I wouldn't go into it unless the profit potential is more than that.

I'm trying to figure out if the liens that normally get wiped out in a tax sale would still get wiped out if the original owner still owns some portion of the property.

William, I am curious about your encounters with tax sales in the Ogden area. Were they a bust or are there a few gems hidden among the 10 ft by 50 ft parcels?

Utah county. It's new this year. I think the reason they did it was to make sure the previous owners would more directly benefit from the extras from the sale. Many of them didn't know they could collect the extra money that the auction brought in beyond the cost of the back taxes.

I'd ask a lawyer about it but the last one I asked didn't understand even the basics of this type of tax sale so I'm leery to ask one a more complicated question. When I ask the county assessor complicated questions about it he tells me to ask a lawyer.

I guess I'm hoping the complication will cut down on the competition.

I'm interested in bidding at a tax sale in Utah county. We are a tax deed state. The county recently changed the bidding process from a typical bid up auction to a percentage bid down auction. How they do it is they start the bidding at 100% of the property for the cost of the back taxes. To compete you bid smaller percentages like 95%, 90% ownership ect. The remaining percentage of the ownership is the original owner. Having two owners on the property is messy and complicated but I've researched what to do there. My question is do the liens on the property that normally disappear in a tax deed sale still disappear if the original owner retains some percentage of the property?