All Forum Posts by: Steve K.

A jury found Trump guilty of 34 felony counts of falsifying business documents to cover up an extramarital affair. Trump University had to pay $24M in damages to students who were defrauded. His charity the Trump Foundation was fined $2M and was shut down by a court order for its misconduct, and for misusing charitable funds for Trumps own personal gain. He's well known for not paying contractors going back decades... How is he not a fraud in your mind?

Elon has been involved in some seriously shady stuff also. Like the solar roof scam I explained in detail above (I still welcome a counter-argument if you have anything to offer to that conversation btw). Other examples of sketchy things Elon has done are his "FSD" technology claims being false (was under investigation for this I believe but the DOJ will probably drop that now), engaging in stock manipulation and making no secret about it ("Funding Secured"), the 2019 robotaxi event where he said they'd be on the streets in 12 months (still waiting), the recent Optimus robot event where the robots were supposedly AI but were actually controlled by humans with remotes backstage, taking deposits 10 years ago for roadsters that were never made, inflating Tesla range estimates, falsified displays and corporate orders to talk owners out of bringing vehicles in for corrective service, highly questionable government contracts... there are so many examples that are arguably unadulterated fraud. You can look at the 10-Q which mentions active DOJ investigations if you don't believe me. No wonder he switched political parties and started kissing Trumps ring at the very same time that these investigations began. 

 Trump himself called Elon a "Bullsh*t artist" all the way up until Elon started supporting him. 

Today Elon had a hissy fit because an astronaut called him out for blatantly lying about astronauts being stranded in the space station and called the astronaut "fully retarded" and an "idiot" on Twitter/X. Maybe you like that but I don't think that's how a world leader should act, billions or no billions. 

If we didn't live in a two-tiered justice system (prison is for the dirt poor but not the filthy rich) both of these guys would be in prison already. They were both under investigation for crimes leading up to Trump being elected. Now all bets are off. 

But I'm the delusional one...  I'm not here to be influence anyone but it's become clear that we can't leave it up to people to educate themselves. FACT CHECK EVERYTHING TRUMP AND ELON SAY. For example the recent claims that DOGE has uncovered rampant fraud and waste have already been widely debunked. They are liars and are only involved in government because they were under investigation for multiple crimes and wanted to avoid prison. 

To your point that I haven't done what they have: You're absolutely correct. I have not made billions nor have I committed fraud. I'm fine with that. 

@Ken M. You're welcome to dispute anything I stated that you don't believe is a fact (other than the part I stated is my opinion, although a court of law agreed with me already for one of them being a fraud). I'm sure you can do better than this dismissive and insulting comment with zero substantive counter-argument. 

Man @James Hamling, the irony of you calling someone else daft and then claiming Elon founded Paypal in the next sentence... Not only did Elon NOT found Paypal, he was actually fired from his CEO job there in 2000 after only a few months in the position, for making erratic decisions. Technically Peter Thiel, Luke Nosek, Max Levchin, and Ken Howery founded Confinity, and Ed Ho, Harris Fricker, Elon Musk, and Christopher Payne founded X.com, then after they merged the combined company later became Paypal. It's important to note that it became Paypal in 2001, after Elon was already fired in 2000. He was involved in the company that later became Paypal for sure, and it can be interpreted that he was a co-founder. But Thiel, Nosek, Levchin and Howery are typically accredited as the core founders, seeing as Elon was only there for a few months and had already been fired when it actually became Paypal. He was able to keep his shares and made a bundle when they sold to Ebay of course, but Elon didn't found Paypal any more than he founded Tesla. 

Get your facts straight for once dude! It's becoming a full time job for me to always need to correct you on here ;) and please quit the name-calling, it's beneath you. 

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @Jeremiah Dunakin:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Elon is getting $8M per day in tax dollars, while cutting government programs that cost much less than that per year. And he was not elected. The programs he's cutting employ a lot of good people and provide a lot of good services to the country. Has anyone seen the letters that federal employees are getting? These were not written by government employees and are insulting to good people who provide civil services. They say "stop being lazy and find a real job in the private sector". It's absurd and unjust. I know for a fact that Elon is a con man from when I worked in the solar industry, his solar company was a total scam and gave the whole industry a bad name. Trump also has a history of scamming people (Trump University, his charity, all of the contractors he never paid, everyone who got the short end of the stick during his multiple bankruptcies, claiming $70k tax write off per year on his taxes to do his hair, his company was found guilty of fraud, etc.). It's a con job by two of the biggest con artists in history. People are still worried about Hunter's laptop or Hillary's emails when the conspiracy is right in front of us. Like I said earlier, these two will be the world's first Trillionaires while the rest of us suffer.  

Ok, this Trump Derangement Syndrome is way outta control now. How about some FACTS and TRUTH OF CONTEXT for this: 

Yeah, what an Evil Guy Elon and Space-X is charging the US $8m per day for what was $16m+ per day....... 

"HOW DARE YOU SAVE US MONEY ELON!!!!!!!!"

Get out of you propaganda bubble Steve and read some facts. Stop being a tool used by those with nefarious reasons. You’re better than this Steve. You’re smarter and better than this. 

You don’t think Elon is a welfare queen? 
You’ve obviously fallen for the con. I know for a fact Elon is a con man from insider information. Whenever his solar company was about to go bankrupt (because it is a crappy company with bad products and terrible customer service, just ask anyone who ever needed one of their solar leases transferred to a buyer during a home sale or needed warranty work done), he’d launch an “exciting new product that will revolutionize the solar industry”. My friend was the head of the new products division there and Elon would just come up with these random new product ideas the night before a meeting with investors while pulling an all-nighter (on drugs btw) then order my friend to put a big marketing presentation together quickly, literally using Hollywood movie sets and actors pretending to be satisfied customers when the products were completely fake. Stocks would go up after the presentation, all based on lies. The product would never come out or even begin being developed, 100% smoke and mirrors. He does this with Tesla all the time too. Stocks will go down based on missed earnings reports and Elon will just announce some new shiny object that is “coming soon” to pump the stocks.  Like the Optimus Robot that is supposedly autonomous and coming to market next year, but was actually being controlled by humans with remote controls at its launch party. Just to pump the stock up. How much do you want to bet the robot will not be for sale anytime in the near future? The cybertruck and autonomous driving are also examples of products he promised many years before they were ready just to pump stocks. The stock prices of all of his companies have always been out of whack with their P/E ratios because he’s the world’s best conman, second only to Trump. Nobody voted for him, and now he’s firing thousands of federal employees. Watch crypto closely, this is how those two will become the world’s first trillionaires. 

 Wait so you’re telling me literally the night before a huge meeting. He would get hyped up on drugs. Then basically in the middle of the night would come up with this marketing plan. Then get access to Hollywood sets and actors write a presentation and market this to some of the most successful people in the world. Jane and Jack Doe don’t get to go to these meeting. Then you are saying these successful people and investors would be completely duped by a drug fuel marketing ploy that took less than 24 from taking the drugs, to coming up with idea to setting up a Hollywood studio to filming it with actors. If he can pull all of that off that is the greatest exhibition of effecianicy I’ve ever seen. That is truly amazing. Maybe he should be in charge of DOGE wasn’t a big fan of Musk till you put it that way

 You might find this an interesting read: https://gotmusked.com/content/solarcity-scam-fake-tiles/

Or this: https://www.fastcompany.com/40422084/inside-steel-pulse-the-...

Or this: https://mansionengineer.com/2019/02/04/elon-musk-tesla-and-t...

Or this: https://x.com/JCOviedo6/status/1188197282023387137

Or this: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/dnlce0/yes_the_f...

Steve, seriously, what the hell is the deal with your Musk Derangement Syndrome???? 

Here is so truth bomb's for ya. My background other than Real Estate is in Engineering, specifically Manufacturing Engineering. 

All this shade your throwing about solar shingles, well guess what buddy, you'll have to add Owens Corning side-X-side with Elon on this because it was a parallel R&D. I know because I was involved in it with O.C.. 

Fact is when your trying to develop and implement such a ground breaking innovation as solar shingles, it's not a simple or easy thing. Everything can look great on paper and in theory and than in real world application unknown unknowns happen. 

Do you have any idea how much roof space is in USA? Do you have any idea the energy draw of USA? It was a simple and brilliant concept that the energy industry & roofing industry fought tooth & nail. 

It is not a scam to have tried and failed. 

This is Preston Tucker all over again.... 

 Good, so you have some background on the topic. I do as well. I installed solar roofs produced by Dow Chemical in the early 2000's, which obviously preceded Tesla's Solar Roof. They went away because they weren't cost effective or efficient enough compared to conventional solar panels. They took too long to install and had too many issues with the electrical connections on the back coming apart due to freeze and thaw, were too hard to trouble shoot and service, had overheating issues that caused efficiency loss, etc. 

Then Elon introduced them again as a BRAND NEW concept/ fake product in 2016 to unwitting investors to trick them into investing, and to trick the Tesla board to approve the merger with Solar City. They had fake solar tiles that were literally just painted cardboard installed on the Desperate Housewives film set and hired actors to pretend to be satisfied customers. Elon said they were a unique and revolutionary new product and announced that they were ready to be produced en masse to a delighted audience of investors and shareholders. Where are the solar roofs now 10 years later? A complete flop. And Solar City which Elon tricked Tesla into purchasing for $2.6 BILLION is now imploding and worth about zero dollars, just like it was then. 

You are correct that it is not a scam to try and fail. But that's not at all what this was. It was a scheme to defraud investors. I know people who worked there at the time who testified in court during the share-holder lawsuit that it was "clear-cut fraud". To be fair, Elon was eventually not found guilty of a crime but if you look into the details, it's very clear that it was a deceptive and shady scam. There were many other shady things happening at Solar City that are available for you to learn about too if you choose, just google Solar City, click on the wikipedia link, and scroll down to the "Lawsuits and Investigations" section that has 10 different examples. I worked in the same industry for 10 years and they always had THE WORST reputation for being extremely scammy. 

Elon and Trump are both frauds. You have to be hiding under a rock not to know that in my opinion, or willfully deny it, or have just fallen for the con. You're entitled to your opinion as well and I respect all opinions of course, and you don't have to get all emotional or make it personal against me just because you refuse to accept the facts of the matter. 

@Jeremiah Dunakin Also Elon is open about his drug use and about staying up late on drugs and working on his projects (LSD, cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, and ketamine). It's not a secret:

https://www.wsj.com/business/elon-musk-illegal-drugs-e826a9e...

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/elon-musk-opens-up-about-dru...

Quote from @Jeremiah Dunakin:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Elon is getting $8M per day in tax dollars, while cutting government programs that cost much less than that per year. And he was not elected. The programs he's cutting employ a lot of good people and provide a lot of good services to the country. Has anyone seen the letters that federal employees are getting? These were not written by government employees and are insulting to good people who provide civil services. They say "stop being lazy and find a real job in the private sector". It's absurd and unjust. I know for a fact that Elon is a con man from when I worked in the solar industry, his solar company was a total scam and gave the whole industry a bad name. Trump also has a history of scamming people (Trump University, his charity, all of the contractors he never paid, everyone who got the short end of the stick during his multiple bankruptcies, claiming $70k tax write off per year on his taxes to do his hair, his company was found guilty of fraud, etc.). It's a con job by two of the biggest con artists in history. People are still worried about Hunter's laptop or Hillary's emails when the conspiracy is right in front of us. Like I said earlier, these two will be the world's first Trillionaires while the rest of us suffer.  

Ok, this Trump Derangement Syndrome is way outta control now. How about some FACTS and TRUTH OF CONTEXT for this: 

Yeah, what an Evil Guy Elon and Space-X is charging the US $8m per day for what was $16m+ per day....... 

"HOW DARE YOU SAVE US MONEY ELON!!!!!!!!"

Get out of you propaganda bubble Steve and read some facts. Stop being a tool used by those with nefarious reasons. You’re better than this Steve. You’re smarter and better than this. 

You don’t think Elon is a welfare queen? 
You’ve obviously fallen for the con. I know for a fact Elon is a con man from insider information. Whenever his solar company was about to go bankrupt (because it is a crappy company with bad products and terrible customer service, just ask anyone who ever needed one of their solar leases transferred to a buyer during a home sale or needed warranty work done), he’d launch an “exciting new product that will revolutionize the solar industry”. My friend was the head of the new products division there and Elon would just come up with these random new product ideas the night before a meeting with investors while pulling an all-nighter (on drugs btw) then order my friend to put a big marketing presentation together quickly, literally using Hollywood movie sets and actors pretending to be satisfied customers when the products were completely fake. Stocks would go up after the presentation, all based on lies. The product would never come out or even begin being developed, 100% smoke and mirrors. He does this with Tesla all the time too. Stocks will go down based on missed earnings reports and Elon will just announce some new shiny object that is “coming soon” to pump the stocks.  Like the Optimus Robot that is supposedly autonomous and coming to market next year, but was actually being controlled by humans with remote controls at its launch party. Just to pump the stock up. How much do you want to bet the robot will not be for sale anytime in the near future? The cybertruck and autonomous driving are also examples of products he promised many years before they were ready just to pump stocks. The stock prices of all of his companies have always been out of whack with their P/E ratios because he’s the world’s best conman, second only to Trump. Nobody voted for him, and now he’s firing thousands of federal employees. Watch crypto closely, this is how those two will become the world’s first trillionaires. 

 Wait so you’re telling me literally the night before a huge meeting. He would get hyped up on drugs. Then basically in the middle of the night would come up with this marketing plan. Then get access to Hollywood sets and actors write a presentation and market this to some of the most successful people in the world. Jane and Jack Doe don’t get to go to these meeting. Then you are saying these successful people and investors would be completely duped by a drug fuel marketing ploy that took less than 24 from taking the drugs, to coming up with idea to setting up a Hollywood studio to filming it with actors. If he can pull all of that off that is the greatest exhibition of effecianicy I’ve ever seen. That is truly amazing. Maybe he should be in charge of DOGE wasn’t a big fan of Musk till you put it that way

 You might find this an interesting read: https://gotmusked.com/content/solarcity-scam-fake-tiles/

Or this: https://www.fastcompany.com/40422084/inside-steel-pulse-the-...

Or this: https://mansionengineer.com/2019/02/04/elon-musk-tesla-and-t...

Or this: https://x.com/JCOviedo6/status/1188197282023387137

Or this: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/dnlce0/yes_the_f...

 I think it's obvious that Trump only cares about himself. Look at how he stole his father's inheritance from his brother's kids and cut them off entirely (even their health insurance) when their son was suffering from epilepsy. The man is shameless. Just ask his former staffers from his first term, his former Vice President even, his former lawyer, etc. they all say he only cares about himself. Again, I never liked him even when he was a Democrat. He's always seemed slimy. I think I began disliking him all the way back when he was on the Howard Stern show talking about how his own daughter is a "nice piece of a**". That's the first time I remember being disgusted by him. I grew up in the NYC area so maybe my memories of Trump go back farther than others. There's a reason that not many people in his own home town voted for him. He has a long history of scuzzy behavior and doing bad deals in NYC, not paying his contractors, etc. Not to mention his taxes. How can you believe he cares about his country if you look at his taxes? Literally claiming $70k/year for doing whatever it is that he does to his hair, and lots of other questionable tax schemes that I don't think you'd approve of if anyone else did them. That's why he didn't want his taxes getting out. I don't know how anyone can support a guy like that.

Quote from @Ken M.:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Elon is getting $8M per day in tax dollars, while cutting government programs that cost much less than that per year. And he was not elected. The programs he's cutting employ a lot of good people and provide a lot of good services to the country. Has anyone seen the letters that federal employees are getting? These were not written by government employees and are insulting to good people who provide civil services. They say "stop being lazy and find a real job in the private sector". It's absurd and unjust. I know for a fact that Elon is a con man from when I worked in the solar industry, his solar company was a total scam and gave the whole industry a bad name. Trump also has a history of scamming people (Trump University, his charity, all of the contractors he never paid, everyone who got the short end of the stick during his multiple bankruptcies, claiming $70k tax write off per year on his taxes to do his hair, his company was found guilty of fraud, etc.). It's a con job by two of the biggest con artists in history. People are still worried about Hunter's laptop or Hillary's emails when the conspiracy is right in front of us. Like I said earlier, these two will be the world's first Trillionaires while the rest of us suffer.  

Ok, this Trump Derangement Syndrome is way outta control now. How about some FACTS and TRUTH OF CONTEXT for this: 

Yeah, what an Evil Guy Elon and Space-X is charging the US $8m per day for what was $16m+ per day....... 

"HOW DARE YOU SAVE US MONEY ELON!!!!!!!!"

Get out of you propaganda bubble Steve and read some facts. Stop being a tool used by those with nefarious reasons. You’re better than this Steve. You’re smarter and better than this. 

You don’t think Elon is a welfare queen? 
You’ve obviously fallen for the con. I know for a fact Elon is a con man from insider information. Whenever his solar company was about to go bankrupt, he’d launch an “exciting new product that will revolutionize the solar industry”. My friend was the head of the new products division there and Elon would just come up with these random new product ideas the night before a meeting with investors while pulling an all-nighter (on drugs btw) then order my friend to put a big marketing presentation together quickly, literally using Hollywood movie sets and actors pretending to be satisfied customers when the products were completely fake. Stocks would go up after the presentation, all based on lies. The product would never come out or even begin being developed, 100% smoke and mirrors. He does this with Tesla all the time too. Stocks will go down based on missed earnings reports and Elon will just announce some new shiny object that is “coming soon” to pump the stocks.  Like the Optimus Robot that is supposedly autonomous and coming to market next year, but was actually being controlled by humans with remote controls at its launch party. Just to pump the stock up. How much do you want to bet the robot will not be for sale anytime in the near future? The cybertruck and autonomous driving are also examples of products he promised many years before they were ready just to pump stocks. The stock prices of all of his companies have always been out of whack with their P/E ratios because he’s the world’s best conman. Nobody voted for him, and now he’s firing thousands of federal employees.

Alexander Graham Bell promised the light bulb years before he had it perfected. You still use light don't you? I'm not sure what the complaint is.

 Fair point. I know that "fake it until you make it" has been around a long time. I just don't like when it crosses the line into outright fraud which is what it sounds like in Elon's case a lot of times, just outright lying. I always thought it was ironinc that he bought a company named Tesla because he seems more like an Edison than a Tesla. It's more acceptable in business to lie I suppose (although not the way I like to do business), but much more concerning for top government officials (with the understanding that they all lie, just some a lot more than others). 

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Quote from @James Hamling:

Quote from @Steve K.:

Elon is getting $8M per day in tax dollars, while cutting government programs that cost much less than that per year. And he was not elected. The programs he's cutting employ a lot of good people and provide a lot of good services to the country. Has anyone seen the letters that federal employees are getting? These were not written by government employees and are insulting to good people who provide civil services. They say "stop being lazy and find a real job in the private sector". It's absurd and unjust. I know for a fact that Elon is a con man from when I worked in the solar industry, his solar company was a total scam and gave the whole industry a bad name. Trump also has a history of scamming people (Trump University, his charity, all of the contractors he never paid, everyone who got the short end of the stick during his multiple bankruptcies, claiming $70k tax write off per year on his taxes to do his hair, his company was found guilty of fraud, etc.). It's a con job by two of the biggest con artists in history. People are still worried about Hunter's laptop or Hillary's emails when the conspiracy is right in front of us. Like I said earlier, these two will be the world's first Trillionaires while the rest of us suffer.  

Ok, this Trump Derangement Syndrome is way outta control now. How about some FACTS and TRUTH OF CONTEXT for this: 

Yeah, what an Evil Guy Elon and Space-X is charging the US $8m per day for what was $16m+ per day....... 

"HOW DARE YOU SAVE US MONEY ELON!!!!!!!!"

Get out of you propaganda bubble Steve and read some facts. Stop being a tool used by those with nefarious reasons. You’re better than this Steve. You’re smarter and better than this. 

You don’t think Elon is a welfare queen? 
You’ve obviously fallen for the con. I know for a fact Elon is a con man from insider information. Whenever his solar company was about to go bankrupt, he’d launch an “exciting new product that will revolutionize the solar industry”. My friend was the head of the new products division there and Elon would just come up with these random new product ideas the night before a meeting with investors while pulling an all-nighter (on drugs btw) then order my friend to put a big marketing presentation together quickly, literally using Hollywood movie sets and actors pretending to be satisfied customers when the products were completely fake. Stocks would go up after the presentation, all based on lies. The product would never come out or even begin being developed, 100% smoke and mirrors. He does this with Tesla all the time too. Stocks will go down based on missed earnings reports and Elon will just announce some new shiny object that is “coming soon” to pump the stocks.  Like the Optimus Robot that is supposedly autonomous and coming to market next year, but was actually being controlled by humans with remote controls at its launch party. Just to pump the stock up. How much do you want to bet the robot will not be for sale anytime in the near future? The cybertruck and autonomous driving are also examples of products he promised many years before they were ready just to pump stocks. The stock prices of all of his companies have always been out of whack with their P/E ratios because he’s the world’s best conman. Nobody voted for him, and now he’s firing thousands of federal employees.

Wow, Steve, with all love brotha, seriously, your space-cadet way out there man. Come back down to earth with us. 

Seriously Bro, you need a detox. No joke, you need a propaganda detox. 

I suggest like one of those Canadian get-aways where it's awesome fishing, water sports, and no internet or cell reception. 

Just nature, life NO media of any kind at all. 

Look, it is fundamentally impossible for Elon to be any form of a "con-man". He has invented more things than this text box will probably allow for text, I mean that very literally. 

For Tesla he literally invented an entirely new form of manufacturing, including all the machines and tools for that invented manufacturing form.

Space-X is a list of hundreds upon hundreds of inventions. And to boot, he literally posts it all online FREE for anyone/everyone to take and use. 

Con Men do not invent things, more or less hundreds and thousands of things. 

Con Men do not offer open access to the masses. 

Elon said end all EV subsidies, including his. Con Men do not cut off there own e-z $. 

Before Space-X the US was reliant on Russian rockets and the Russian space agency. Did you not know this or just forget that? 

How is it "welfare"? That's the most bizarre spin. 

The US Gov, ie NASA, has contracted to hitch rides on Space-X rockets like a space taxi. Is you paying an Uber Driver "welfare" payments? 

Why do they contract for rides on Space-X vs there own rockets? I literally showed you the numbers. Because it's a TON cheaper. It's more then a 50% DISCOUNT. 

This total disregard for facts, and blind hate because of someone's political affiliation is mentally unhealthy. 

Seriously, get a vacation from all this stuff man, it's making your head soft. Get a detox. I know your smarter than this, I know your smart enough to think it through and think "wtf, that doesn't make sense, that's spin, wtf". But man, they've really got you punch-drunk on the kool-aid. 

 Funny how before Elon and Trump became buddies, many Republicans hated solar and electric cars and called Elon a welfare queen for taking billions of dollars in government funding. Trump himself called Elon a "Bullsh*t artist" as recently as 2022. Now that they're friends me calling him a welfare queen is a "bizarre spin".  

 Not a fan of any corrupt politicians, I consider myself a centrist not beholden to either party and for the record I have not been a fan of Trump since when he was a Democrat (which he was for a long time before becoming a Republican, then he switched parties I believe at least 5 times).