All Forum Posts by: Melody Jenkins

Hi All:  I'm back with a brand new question. The daughter of the 82 year old just brought me the original of the Bargain and Sale Deed. It was indeed recorded. I have the copy of the City Register and Endorsement page. This happened in 2002. So here's her question. Does this Bargain and Sale Deed make any previous wills null and void. And all she wants to know is when her mother passes away, then all 4 people mentioned in this Bargain and Sale Deed which are the son (guy in basement), the daughter and the daughter's two adult children....that they equally will own the house and then the three of them can force the guy out of the basement by hiring an attorney and paying him off?  That's what she needs to know. The guy in the basement will never stand for getting one fourth of the house. He has been saying "I know my rights, the house is half mine, I have an attorney". blah blah.  He does not work, he has no money so we don't know what attorney he is talking about.

So that's the end of my questions. If you can just answer this last one, it will give the daughter peace of mind.  She expects a big fight on her hand. I think she's right on the money.

Please, just one more answer and we'll get all this straight. Thanks. 

This was done at a lawyer's office. Top of page it indicates 

Standard N.Y.B.T.U.Form 8002   etc. etc.

This indenture.  blah blah.

All the info is there with all names indicated but no one signed anything.

I remember a few years ago when we all sitting in the backyard and the 82 year old said "What does this mean?"  I then said "You need to make sure what this is, and have a lawyer look at it"  She said "Is this my will?"  I said "uh oh, and I said to the daughter  "Do you know what this all is??  She said "All I know is she went to an attorney and they drew this up"   Now this conversation was YEARS AGO.

All of a sudden, earlier today, I met up with the daughter and she said "I need to know if we are all on this house".  I looked up lot and block number and told her "No, only you mother is'.  She then said "Can you go online and ask someone" (She is not computer literate). 

So here is what I think MIGHT be the case. The copy that was given to the 82 year old is just the copy. Not the notarized, witnessed, signed version.

Is this possible?  Could the lawyer at the time indeed record this? But if he did, wouldn't it show up when I do a title search using Lot and Block?

If the lawyer did indeed record it at the time (June of 99), I would think that when I did a title search EVERYBODY' name would be on the house, no?

or....as you have suggested, this document is absolutely worthless, never recorded and so the grandchildren don't get a piece of the action, just the two adult children of the 82 year old.  That is what I think is going to  happen.

But let's say this is the case. And the guy in the basement refuses to move out or do  anything (he's a nutcase).

I would imagine the sister of this guy has to get a lawyer, file papers and do whatever is needed to get him out (even if he owns half the house).

How does one actually get rid of a guy who lives in the house, now owns half of it,  and is very odd?

There is another tenant who lives upstairs, pays her rent on time, and is disabled. She doesn't want to move at all.

I do thank you for responding.  

My friend's daughter came to me with this document asking me "Does her brother get half the house or 1/4".   I came here to tell you about how the document read. The document is not signed, notarized or anything. The 82 year old is protecting the guy in the basement. So obviously she never signed anything, it was never notarized, never recorded and believe me, she will never leave the house, re-do this and get it recorded.  She just wants peace.  The daughter has no idea this document was never recorded making it null and void. So now I will tell the daughter that when the 82 year old dies, she gets half, and her brother gets the other half. 

But the brother (the guy in the basement) won't move out of the basement. He is crazy and that's his home so obviously how the hell can this house be sold if the lady dies and she has a daughter who wants to sell and a son who won't come out of the basement. This is going to take years to get through (when the time comes).

Thanks to you all.

I hope I got it right. I am not stirring any pot. I was asked to come here and clarify this document. 

Here's the place where I posted it. I already have a few answers. Thanks much

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/1531...

I meant thanks to both of you.  lol

Okay, let's see if I got this straight.  If it had been recorded all 4 people would be on the Lot and Block info as co-owners, right?

The guy in the basement has never contributed one single dime to the upkeep of anything. in 20 years. If this document is NOT recorded then this document doesn't mean anything and when his 82 year old mother dies, the house goes to the two surviving adult children, each getting one half, right?  Even though the guy in the basement never gave one single dime.  Right?

Oh, this particular document, well, there are no signatures, no notary stamps. No nothing. If this had been recorded, wouldn't this document indicate that with signatures and stamps?  They woudln't just give her this document and leave it all up to her?    I  thought the lawyer gets it recorded. Believe me, the daughter and the 82 year old do not know what's going on. I asked them once "is this on record?"  They shrugged and said "we don't know"

So we have some people who don't know what's going on. The guy in the basement was told that indeed the house was going to 4 of them and he yelled and banged and said "Oh no, I get half".  So the fact that the legal document I am holding which has no signatures and no notary stamp and on public record, only the 82 year old is the owner, this is definite proof that she is the owner, she document was never recorded and if she died tomorrow, the 4 would  not inherit anything, just the two adult children (the guy in the basement and the other daughter)?   Really?  he would get of the house without contributing ANYTHING???

Just want to get all the t's crossed and dotted and all that. And thanks so much. You're a doll

What do you mean, "get it recorded".  Isn't this a legal document that was recorded already?   And does the parasite son (who thinks he's entitled to half of the house) well, can he contest this?  

I do not understand why the lot and block (which is public record) only shows my 82 year old friend as the owner of the house.  Didn't she transfer ownership when she made this document?

When I go on the Lot and Block site it just has her name alone. If she transferred the house to all four woudln't it have THEIR names as well.

That's why the daughter of the 82 year old (who is scared to death of the guy in the basement because he's NUTS, wants to know what joint survivorship means.

Can't thank you enough if you can just clear this up a bit. Much appreciated.

Hello, my friend is an 82 year old woman and in 1999 she went to a lawyer to have a document drawn up. Her daughter just gave me the document asking "What does this mean?"

Top of document says This Indenture, made the  etc.etc etc. between MY FRIEND indicating she's Party of the first part and Her Daughter, Her Son, and her two grandchildren. as Joint Tenants with Right of Survivorship.

party of the second part.  Witnesseth, that the party of the first part in consideration of Ten dollars paid by the party of the second part does hereby grand and release unto the party of the second party, the heirs or successors and assigns of the party of the second part forever. 

All the certain plot, piece of parcel of land (then it gives the addresses and all the geographical details of the premises.

THEN there is a paragraph that says. 

"Subject to a life tenancy in (my 82 year old friend's name), She will pay all expenses of running the house. She will collect the rent for the second floor apartment. Subject to a tenancy of the first floor occupied by her son (gives his name.  FYI, the son lives in the basement with his wife and never paid a dime's rent while living in the basement for the past 20 years.

On the back of this document on the bottom it says 

BARGAIN AND SALE DEED with covenant against grantor's acts

Title No.  (this is blank)

Name (the 82 year old )

To:  The son, the daughter and the two grandchildren as Joint Tenants with Right of Survivorship.

My 82 year old friend's daughter doe s not understand what this document means. I told her "your mom turned over the house to you , your brother who lives in the basement, and your two children. She can live in the house until she dies, pays all the bills, and gets to live there. Your brother will still live in the basement even though it says on the document, that he lives on the first floor and never contributed a dime.

The guy who lives in basement for 20 years without paying a dime knows about this document, went nuts and yelled "When my mother dies, I'm entitled to HALF this house, not one fourth".  Nobody can make me move, nobody can sell this house and I won't leave"

So what exactly is going on here. Am I right in assuming that she transferred the deed to these 4 people (is this what the words "Joint Tenants with Right of Survivorship" means?

Oh, when I looked up Lot and Block info on the computer (this is in NYC by the way) the house is in the name of the 82 year old woman.  No other name appears as owner.

Thank you kindly if someone can answer. The guy who lives in the basement with his wife and they pay no rent for 20 years, well they really think they will get HALF of the house when the mom dies.

Thanks so much 

Mel

I have a bargain and sale deed question which I will be posting (hopefully on a correct forum). Perhaps one of you knowledgeable people can help me?