Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Scott Grover

Scott Grover has started 6 posts and replied 41 times.

Post: Roof inspections for hail damage

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

Due to a recent hail storm on the north side Indianapolis, there are several roofs getting replaced. If you need a roof inspection anywhere in Indy, let me help with your insurance claim. No cost for the inspection.

www.aspenexteriors.com

Carmel, Zionsville, Nobblesville, Northfield, Rosston, Whitestown, Gadsden

Post: Would you pay more tax to help house the homeless?

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

If the government was capable of solving this problem, I would definitely pay more taxes.  But the fact is that the more the government tries to solve this problem, the worse it will get.  I'll take that increased money that I would pay in taxes and give to n organization or person to help the situation, and I would have an expectation of a return on that investment - changed life or community.

Post: Lower income neighborhoods and investment properties

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11
Originally posted by @Dan Schwartz:

@Justin Pokrywka my advice, from my experience in this demographic, is that it is a LOT of work. Don't underestimate that one bit.

Imagine that you are starting a business and it's head office will be at this property. You won't be there quite that often, but it might feel like it some months. Thinking this way will also engender some honesty about how you feel about the neighborhood and your comfort level there. "Am I willing to go to 'my office' at any hour of the day - or night - to work on my business?"

You will manage your physical plant (the property itself) and also the Human Resources (the tenants). Could you manage a department at a company whose workers were of this demographic? They'll throw a lot at you: excuses for non-payment, snitching on "#4" (yes, my tenants only referred to each other by apartment number, never by name), why they need this or that. I'm not part of the sect of BP that seems to believe tenants are subhumans who exist to poop out money for the landlord or else crawl off to rot and die elsewhere, but you will have to set rules and stick to them steadfastly. You're the manager; you get to set the rules.

I enjoyed managing our low-income, working-class apartments. We made a lot of money. We left a lot of money on the table in unpaid rent, but made out just fine. We evicted people. We pulled evictions when people shaped up. We called the cops on unwanted guests when the tenant was too intimidated to, and then stuck around so the creep would know there were people who had "her back." We learned who to turn away, even when we were desperate for tenants in the beginning. We supported the local homeless shelter and sought out as tenants people who had been through the shelter's "get on your feet"-type program. We helped people with their addictions to the small extent we could, because to some of them, we were the only human constant in their life.

It was an enormous investment of time and energy, and we sold when I simply couldn't make the time for it among the many other things in our lives. I personally found it to be humbling and rewarding, but there are many ways to achieve that in life that don't require managing such a property.

 Love this @Dan Schwartz.  I expect to write a similar bio in 5-10 years.

Post: Buying a house with HUD renters

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

Thank you @Account Closed

Post: Buying a house with HUD renters

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

I just looked at a house with renters on housing assistance (HUD I think). The rent ratio is great. The house is in fair condition, but the renters aren't very good housekeepers and have been there 14 years. They just have a lot of stuff, like hoarders. I've seen much, much worse. Supposedly the house is infested with roaches, but I didn't see any pests while there. Aside from the concerns of roaches to the home, how would the transition of ownership go with HUD? Inspections? Asking for any house, whether I buy this house or not.

Post: Hello, I'm a slumlord

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

This is a really interesting thread (at least most of it).

@Levi T. articulated the market challenges very well.  Much of it depends on the market you're in, but let's assume the local economy is growing equal to the population, and wage rates are equal inflation.  If you buy crappy places and turn them around, the former tenants will be off looking for some place else they can afford.  A growing local market should be able to support a growing percentage of "nicer" places, and vice versa.  

Anyone who has a problem renting substandard housing to low income people should make some effort to meet some of those prospective tenants.  There are thousands of people in big cities that are choosing to live in tents under overpasses, or in the urban jungle on the river banks.  (Many are also forced into it, true.)  If we could provide all of them a place to live, I'm sure it wouldn't be nice.  I noticed in @Ron Flatt's comment that his elderly relative visits the tenants every month.  Hopefully her relationship with them is mutually beneficial.  I think the relationship is important.

Personally, I couldn't leave holes in the floor, non-working heat, or plumbing leaks in a house regardless of the rent.  If your the same way follow what @Justin Fox says and "do something or get out of the way".  If you can provide a better home at the same price, get to it.  Your business will grow while the slumier slum lord's business will shrink.

Post: Looking for an agent in SE Missouri

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

Thanks @Edwin Broce.  I'll keep you in mind when it comes time to diversify into a bigger market.

@Scott Jordan that sounds great.  I'll send you a PM.

Post: Looking for an agent in SE Missouri

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

It looks as though I'm going to be moving to Cape Girardeau, MO soon for a new job in southern IL. I'm excited to move to a place with lower home prices and buy some rental homes, but first I need a home for my family and I. Being new to the area, I am looking for a realtor, that not only knows the neighborhoods and schools, but is also familiar with the rental market. (Any home I buy in the next few years will cash flow as a rental if/when we move again.) An agent who is also familiar with foreclosures, REO, and HUD buying processes would also be helpful.

Post: Ethically investing in poorer urban areas

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

@Ryland Taniguchi  I did not know all this about you, but I certainly love the mentoring you offer all of us newbies in the Seattle Tacoma area.

Post: Ethically investing in poorer urban areas

Scott Grover
Pro Member
Posted
  • Contractor
  • Cape Girardeau, MO
  • Posts 44
  • Votes 11

Wow, what an awesome thread!  Thanks for posting @Madeline J.  I've also been wanting to do this too for the last couple of years, but first I had to solve my own cash flow challenges so I could get started investing.  While working on that, I've read several posts like this and come up with the following process.  I will definitely check out these resources from @Al Williamson, but here's my input for now.

1. Get started investing in B class properties to learn the challenges of every landlord and provide some stable income.  You'll learn financing, rehab, maybe even the eviction process.

2. Get to know the people needing help.  Volunteer for a local non-profit, and not just in the food line or handing out clothes.  Get to know the people, learn there stories, and get an idea how you can help.  Help may, or may not, be needing a place to leave.  Poor and homeless is a mindset.  "Poor people have poor ways" is something a friend of mine always says.  If you have a hammer, every problem can look like a nail.  If your property is the hammer, make sure their main problem is a nail before you go trying to solve it.

3. Buy that D class property, planning for high rehab and vacancy costs, and not planning to make a profit.  Focus on helping the person rather than just putting a roof over their head.  @Dawn Anastasihas some good points.  I love the idea @Michael Wentzel  puts out here for Financial University and Scholarships.

@Michael Delpier writes that "There are low income people that work hard. These people can be helped.  There are low income people who want the world given to them.  These people cannot be helped."  I believe they can all be helped, but the description of the ladder person first needs to become the former.  Some people have to hit rock bottom before they're motivated enough, and if you get the latter as a tenant, you're going to have to evict them so you can move on to someone else.

"Poor people are that way due to factors you cannot change" is something that @Ed Emmons points out.  We can't, you are right, but God can.  This is where I think many people fail, and why this business plan is often poo-pooed.  I won't expand here because that isn't the purpose of this site, but I cannot emphasize enough the importance of this spiritual aspect when trying to change people.

4. Don't think this D class property is real estate investing.  It's really people investing.  It's social work, plain and simple, and if you want to earn a profit on the real estate you must invest in the people.  This takes time and energy.  And if you can't do it hire a social worker (not a property manager) who can.  This is what step 2 was for - to learn this part.  Your maintenance staff, lawn care team, and anyone who comes into contact with the tenants representing you should have an understanding of how to interact with them and be willing to provide tough love when necessary.

As people (your tenants) start to change, your real estate will earn a profit.

Don't assume they know how to mow the lawn or paint.  But if they need to learn how to provide value to their community, show them how.

5. Ultimately, the goal is always to move people out into good jobs and nicer homes.  This can only be done with a healthy local economy, and I think with some economic and business education, some of the 'graduates' of this process will go on to start businesses and provide real outlets for others.  Some 'graduates' will turn out to be great resources for you in perpetuating your work in this ministry.

At this point, this is just a plan for me.  Real estate is expensive, but while I save, books and reading BP posts are cheap.  If you want to change the world, it must be through people.  The condition of homes and neighborhoods is just a reflection of people.  Thanks for reading my long post and God Bless!