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All Forum Posts by: Robert Frazier

Robert Frazier has started 26 posts and replied 75 times.

Quote from @Josh Havekost:

The tough thing about Boise is that there isn't a huge high dollar labor market. So rents are up but not up as much as property prices and construction costs. It's tough to pencil buying a 550k house that you can rent for $1850. For buy and holds I'm investing out of state.

I have a couple rentals here in Boise and I am subdividing a property near downtown. I think the the value is in the dirt. I think the play would be buying a property that needs some rehab and you can split off a new lot due to new lot sizes and setbacks. Rehab the house while you get lot split approved. A lot of times the house is worth the same as it was before half the land was parceled off. Now you own the new lot outright- you can build yourself or sell it to a builder. Plenty of those options out there right now in my opinion. 


 We’re working a few of those opportunities right now.

Post: 3 Tips for Starting out

Robert FrazierPosted
  • Boise, ID
  • Posts 77
  • Votes 86
Quote from @Devin James:

1) Don't fall into analysis paralysis, theres a ton of ways to invest in Real Estate, pick one and go.

2) Take action. You will fail, you are supposed to fail, that's how you learn.

3) Systems! Create systems that make the business repeatable.


 I like this. Very practical.

Quote from @Andrew Bosco:

Great work! what's your intention for continually raising capital? just syndicate through eternity? 


 Limited capital means that partnerships will help us move faster while the environment is profitable.

Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Robert Frazier:
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Robert Frazier:
Quote from @Dan H.:

Ca has been passing statewide ADU laws for the last half dozen years. Most years a few new laws are being passed.

Adding a single ADU in southern CA is typically a poor investment. Small unit in small unit count is the most expensive development. In most single family zoned areas, a single ADU has a value far less than the hands off cost to develop it. They even have a value add less than performing a garage conversion. This initial negative position can consume years of the small real cash flow (when using realistic expenses). It explains why very few flippers are adding single ADUs and if they are they are usually a conversion of exhisting habitual space (bunk houses, detached offices, workshops, craft rooms, etc.

Some jurisdictions are taking the statewide ADU rules and going much further extreme. This land was from my initial protege. I told him I am glad I did not live on that street. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/working-for-you/new-...

In these extreme cases there is money to be made like most large development. But for the homeowner adding a single ADU, they likely have far better investment options. They need to do all their due diligence including understanding the value that will be added by the ADU, the finance options available, the consequences of adding the ADU (rent control, property taxes, rental limitations, etc), etc.

Good luck


 As with all things, it depends on the investor and the equity.

If they are able to leverage existing equity to buy it under a HEL or HELOC, then they are adding equity with no out of pocket expenses, and adding immediate and longterm cashflow to existing stock.

We like ADU's because there isn't more land being created in our city that is landlocked...but there is more density available to those with large lot under-utilized sfh.

In my market, it typically costs $2 to add less than $1 of value on single build ADUs.  Even if the rate was 0%, that is not the type of investment I seek.  The cash flow borrowing full cost via heloc will be marginal, possibly even negative if using realistic expense estimates (I.e. something near the 50% rule).  

In larger volume, you can get better return.  Someone tackling that type of development effort can achieve returns without ADU laws.  

good luck

Here in Boise, I have a client, he is having an ADU put on his property this week:

1 br 1 ba, 448 sq ft. 32 feet long, 14 wide. All in, his cost was $136,000.

In our market with a standalone ADU, the equity would be about 1:1 immediately if he wanted to price and sell the property. 

Cost to borrow on a HELOC right now is about 7.25%, which puts the interest costs at $9860 per year. Lets say $10,500 with taxes. (these numbers would go down significantly with a refi down the line).

Rental income would be $12-14k per year, so your netting $1500-3500 the first year before lowering the interest cost over time and increased rent (rising at 8% per year).

So for $0 out of pocket you get another unit, equity growth(over time), income that grows and you created a unit of housing that didn't exist before. Not bad at all. 


 Let’s project realistic expense estimates via the 50% rule:

$12k rent / 2 (50% rule) - $19332 P&i = negative $13332/year or negative $1,111/month.  

That is huge negative.  If we use your interest only numbers:

$12k / 2 (59% rule) - $9860 = negative $3860/year or negative $321/month. 

>the equity would be about 1:1 immediately if he wanted to price and sell the property. 

Can you provide an address where you believe a refi appraisal valued a single ADU addition at the same cost as the hands off addition. This is contradictory from what I see locally and what I have been told by multiple national lenders.

There are far better investment options. In addition, adding an ADU is a lot of work. Likely more than most brrrr, but with an ideal brrrr I can make infinite return. In addition, the capital outlay starts long before any income and the detracting of something from the primary structure even if it is just yard space.

As indicated, my original protege made a lot of money (over $500k) on a land transaction associated with a large count ADU development. However, this was not adding a single ADU. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/working-for-you/new-...

In large counts, there is money to be made in ADU additions. In single count, the ADU development costs are too high to typically not have a negative initial equity position


Good luck


 Sounds like you got it figured out. Send me your perfect rental opportunities to invest in.

Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Robert Frazier:
Quote from @Dan H.:

Ca has been passing statewide ADU laws for the last half dozen years. Most years a few new laws are being passed.

Adding a single ADU in southern CA is typically a poor investment. Small unit in small unit count is the most expensive development. In most single family zoned areas, a single ADU has a value far less than the hands off cost to develop it. They even have a value add less than performing a garage conversion. This initial negative position can consume years of the small real cash flow (when using realistic expenses). It explains why very few flippers are adding single ADUs and if they are they are usually a conversion of exhisting habitual space (bunk houses, detached offices, workshops, craft rooms, etc.

Some jurisdictions are taking the statewide ADU rules and going much further extreme. This land was from my initial protege. I told him I am glad I did not live on that street. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/working-for-you/new-...

In these extreme cases there is money to be made like most large development. But for the homeowner adding a single ADU, they likely have far better investment options. They need to do all their due diligence including understanding the value that will be added by the ADU, the finance options available, the consequences of adding the ADU (rent control, property taxes, rental limitations, etc), etc.

Good luck


 As with all things, it depends on the investor and the equity.

If they are able to leverage existing equity to buy it under a HEL or HELOC, then they are adding equity with no out of pocket expenses, and adding immediate and longterm cashflow to existing stock.

We like ADU's because there isn't more land being created in our city that is landlocked...but there is more density available to those with large lot under-utilized sfh.

In my market, it typically costs $2 to add less than $1 of value on single build ADUs.  Even if the rate was 0%, that is not the type of investment I seek.  The cash flow borrowing full cost via heloc will be marginal, possibly even negative if using realistic expense estimates (I.e. something near the 50% rule).  

In larger volume, you can get better return.  Someone tackling that type of development effort can achieve returns without ADU laws.  

good luck

Here in Boise, I have a client, he is having an ADU put on his property this week:

1 br 1 ba, 448 sq ft. 32 feet long, 14 wide. All in, his cost was $136,000.

In our market with a standalone ADU, the equity would be about 1:1 immediately if he wanted to price and sell the property. 

Cost to borrow on a HELOC right now is about 7.25%, which puts the interest costs at $9860 per year. Lets say $10,500 with taxes. (these numbers would go down significantly with a refi down the line).

Rental income would be $12-14k per year, so your netting $1500-3500 the first year before lowering the interest cost over time and increased rent (rising at 8% per year).

So for $0 out of pocket you get another unit, equity growth(over time), income that grows and you created a unit of housing that didn't exist before. Not bad at all. 

I've always been interested in finance but housing had always been a rather boring investment. Buy properties, get rent, buy more properties, get more rent. I didn't have much imagination for it. 5 years ago I started looking at buying a larger home I could house hack because it allowed me to get a larger property than I could afford. In that process, I got my real estate license to buy the house and save on fees. 

That was March of 2020, needless to say we didn't buy or sell our house as the world fell apart...but I had entered into the world of real estate and started to ask new questions. Where single family rentals weren't exciting to me, building and developing land and redeveloping old spaces really intrigued me. I didn't have much money, and not much experience but I used my background in finance to put together a syndication and buy an old office building and drive thru on .59 acres with the purpose of developing housing.

My passion was creating housing in a city with under 2% vacancy and skyrocketing housing costs. When you start asking the question, where are we going to get more housing for all of the 20,000 people moving to our valley every year, you look around and say: "I guess I will".

Our first project has been over 3 years in process with a handful of friends and my Dad as the primary investor, we are ready to break ground on 17 units of townhomes and multifamily units for sale in West Boise. We have learned so much, the main thing is that your architect matters a ton. Our architect has been slow to communicate and get the work done. We had delays from his lack of knowledge about the process and a city that was bureaucratically slow. 

This fall we launched 2 more syndications for infill developments in Boise. a 30+ unit Live-work townhome project in West Boise that has never been developed on 1.3 acres of land and an 8 unit lot split on the Boise Bench with a house to flip on an acre. 

I've learned a ton about syndications, partnerships, funding for construction, the development process and so much more about managing consultants than I will ever care to admit. 

I've still never owned a single family rental property or collected a rent check, but I hope that jumping into development will create opportunities for others to own their own homes and rentals that will serve families for generations.

If you want to follow along for more of the journey let's connect. My goal is to build 1000 units of housing for a city that I love.

Quote from @Zachary Deal:

Thanks for flagging Robert! I visit Warm Lake, Idaho every year (2.5 hrs north of Boise) and have seen Boise transformed over the last 25+ years. It's an amazing city and very underrated rental market in my opinion!


 I love Warm Lake. I grew up going to a camp there every summer.

Boise has a lot to offer in terms of rental market, especially in equity growth. One of the best.

Quote from @Dan H.:

Ca has been passing statewide ADU laws for the last half dozen years. Most years a few new laws are being passed.

Adding a single ADU in southern CA is typically a poor investment. Small unit in small unit count is the most expensive development. In most single family zoned areas, a single ADU has a value far less than the hands off cost to develop it. They even have a value add less than performing a garage conversion. This initial negative position can consume years of the small real cash flow (when using realistic expenses). It explains why very few flippers are adding single ADUs and if they are they are usually a conversion of exhisting habitual space (bunk houses, detached offices, workshops, craft rooms, etc.

Some jurisdictions are taking the statewide ADU rules and going much further extreme. This land was from my initial protege. I told him I am glad I did not live on that street. https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/working-for-you/new-...

In these extreme cases there is money to be made like most large development. But for the homeowner adding a single ADU, they likely have far better investment options. They need to do all their due diligence including understanding the value that will be added by the ADU, the finance options available, the consequences of adding the ADU (rent control, property taxes, rental limitations, etc), etc.

Good luck


 As with all things, it depends on the investor and the equity.

If they are able to leverage existing equity to buy it under a HEL or HELOC, then they are adding equity with no out of pocket expenses, and adding immediate and longterm cashflow to existing stock.

We like ADU's because there isn't more land being created in our city that is landlocked...but there is more density available to those with large lot under-utilized sfh.

In December 2023, the Boise City Council approved a vast rezone of almost all land types across the city. This increased the average density by 50% and opened up opportunities for multifamily and ADU to be built on almost all residential zones.

In a situation like this, new opportunities are bound to present themselves to homeowners and to investors. As we underwrite, new, small multifamily developments, and lot splits we are seeing that there are cash flow rental opportunities that we’re not there before.

 New opportunities are bound to present themselves to homeowners and to investors. As we underwrite, new, small multifamily developments, and lot splits we are seeing that there are cash flow rental opportunities that we’re not there before.

For example, a 1200 square-foot house on a .2 acre lot is now able to be turned into a 2, 3 or four unit small multi family with opportunities even to add an ADU to the back of the property. An investment of just $450,000 for the land and the 1200 square-foot house now has the possibility of creating two or three more units of housing cash flow as a rental and force equity of two or three times the initial value.


I found that most investors are not paying attention enough to the zoning and opportunities available to each property. When we look at zoning and we see the density available, it starts to open up new possibilities for creating housing that is somewhat affordable and also building low cost units for example a second story edition could cost as little as $180-$200,000. This would be the lowest cost unit available within most midsize cities across America.


Where are you seeing zoning opportunities for redevelopment and additional units in single-family home zoning across America and how are you taking advantage of it? I love to work with investors to develop small infill parcels and help them find rental properties across the Treasure Valley in Southwest Idaho. Looking forward to connect.

Quote from @Vhernadette Sasing:

@Greg Parker Thank you so much. So Real estate is the best bet? 

I am planning to do BRRR. I am in the process of building my CORE 4 in DFW area. I have my sister who will be helping me to manage projects. Not sure if BRRR works in DFW area or if I need to go out of state?


 Hardest part about Texas is taxes and insurance. Hard to cashflow properties.

If you want to grab a call sometime, I think there are opportunities to get you where you want to go in the Mountain West.