All Forum Posts by: Seth Williams

Hi @Sergey Tkachev - I'm not sure what you mean by "printed letters" and "hand written yellow letters" (because these things mean different things to different people). Personally, I use postcards because they're cheap, effective and (if you know how to write good copy), it's easy to make them eye-catching and impossible to ignore.

I've also found that it's hard to beat the value that Click2Mail offers. Not only will they print, stamp and mail everything for you (which can literally save you DAYS of time), but you'll also pay postage rates and production costs that are significantly less expensive than if you were to print, stamp and mail all of this mail from the "comfort of home".

The cost of postage for one postcard on Click2Mail is less than 30 cents (meaning, you’ll save 6.2¢ compared to the $0.34 cost of a postcard stamp).

This may not sound like a big deal for one postcard – but when you’re mailing hundreds or thousands of postcards in one shot, this kind of savings is HUGE.

Yeah - that sounds pretty bad @Jay Groleau, though not entirely outside the realm of possibility. I'd be willing to bet that any list service like this has a disclaimer of sorts hidden somewhere in the fine print...   not that most of us will ever see it (myself included) - but I'm sure it's there.

The customer service thing is another issue entirely - I'm not sure there's any excuse for that. Like you said though, there are lessons to be learned in all of this.

You're not alone @Jay Groleau - and ListSource isn't the only provider with this problem (I've seen it with AgentPro247 and others too).

The problem isn't so much with the provider, but with the public records that are being pulled. Some states and counties have very old and/or bad information that they make available to the public (I've found that this tends to happen in counties that are VERY rural, probably because they don’t have enough tax revenue to keep an up-to-date public records system). 

When a county doesn't provide good data, this means that the data available from services like AgentPro247 or ListSource won't be any better (so while it kinda is, it mostly isn't their fault...   they aren't the ones keeping terrible public records - they're just showing you what the county is making available publicly). 

Like you've probably discovered - when your data isn't current or accurate, it usually translates into a much lower response rate on your direct mail campaign and/or lots of returned mail (because at the end of the day, you just don't have the right information to reach these people). And given how expensive direct mail can be, it's definitely a problem to have bad information.

For this reason – it's not a bad idea to do a "test run" whenever you're sending mail to an uncharted territory that you're not familiar with. If you’re trying to break into a new market, try sending out 100 – 200 mail pieces in that new area and see what kind of response rate you get (and do this BEFORE you blast out thousands of mailers). 

If your response rate is terrible, you should be able to quickly determine that the information from ListSource isn't reliable (nor will it be reliable from any other source other than the county itself). I know -  it stinks to find this out, but the point is to learn about the problem before you've dumped hundreds or thousands into a direct mail campaign that is destined to fail.

Hi @Nathan Brooks - are you using the right code? I just tested it out and the code worked  fine for me (note: I'm using Google Chrome as my browser - not sure if that makes any difference). Try it again - CFGRSH

Also, regarding the realtor license number - I just went through the sign up form and entered "investor" in this field and I was able to get through with no problems.

All good questions @Daren H. - you could always try to wholesale those parcels of land if you can get them under contract with an assignment clause, but honestly - I think you'll find that buyers for vacant land are a bit fewer & further between.

Your question about land valuation is actually a pretty deep topic - because it's not nearly as easy to come up with a legitimate, dependable value on land (compared to the process of valuing a generic residential building).

If you want to learn more, I've gone into great detail on the subject right. Believe me - it really is an art AND a science.

I finally got some answers from the gas company in my area (DTE Energy). They are telling me that to re-meter this 4-plex, it would cost $936 for the first unit, and then $338 for every unit after that (so it averages out to $487.50 per unit in this case - or $1,950 total). 

This doesn't include any new gas lines that may be needed (which are about $9.75 per linear foot). It also doesn't include any new appliances that may be needed in each unit (like new hot water heaters - if all 4 units are currently sharing one hot water heater at the moment).

So at the very least, I'm looking at a cost of roughly $2,000 - and possibly upwards of $5,500 or more (if new appliances and gas lines are needed). 

It's not cheap, but given that the current landlord pays more than $3,000 annually for the gas bill at this place - it's an improvement that would definitely pay for itself in fairly short order  (and significantly improve cash flow in the future). Is it worth the cost? I think so - though it may change my offer price a bit.

Thanks @Kyle Hipp @Bill S. and @Bret L. 

I'll be calling the gas company tomorrow morning to get a better idea for what they'll charge (keeping in mind that I'll probably have to pay for some extra work to re-run the lines to each of the individual units as well).

I really appreciate all of your input!

Thanks very much for your feedback @Arlan Potter and @Bret L. 

Brad - I'm curious (even though it's probably an arbitrary number), how much more was the new black pipe after the meter?

I'm looking at buying a 4-plex right now. After running the numbers and doing some pretty thorough research, this property appears to be a cash cow except for one little problem... 

there is only one gas meter, one electric meter and one water meter - i.e. - ALL of the utilities are paid by the landlord (which basically kills 80% of the net profit each year).

Looking at each of the utilities - gas is by far the most expensive one. Fortunately, each of these 4 units already has it's own forced air furnace and ductwork (I'm not sure about the lines to each unit).

Does anybody know - how much would it cost to split one gas meter into 4 separate gas meters? Since the individual furnaces & ductwork already exist, are we looking at a few hundred bucks? A few thousand bucks? Ten thousand bucks or more? I really have no idea.

I know this is a difficult question to answer with precision, but I'm just looking for a ballpark idea from anyone who has been through this before. The cost of this "improvement" is an important, decision-making piece of data (because if I can't unload this cost onto the tenants, the deal won't work). 

Thoughts?

Good question @Sakeena Andrade - I was actually just having this discussion with someone else earlier this week.

Honestly - when I look at all the best results I've ever gotten from my direct mail campaigns, they've almost always come when I bought my lists directly from the county (not from AgentPro247). 

It's not that AgentPro247 doesn't work (because in many cases, it does), but the problem is - AgentPro makes the process so freaking easy (whereas most counties will make you work hard for it). It's tempting to rely on AgentPro for everything and use it as a crutch, just because it's easy...    but if you want ironclad, SOLID list with consistently reliable results, I don't think you can beat the information you'll receive from the county.

The problem on the other side of the fence, is that some counties are terrible to work with. They can be expensive, terrible at communicating, and they usually don't even understand what you're asking for (all of which can be significant obstacles). BUT, if you can find 4 or 5 counties that are just good enough to give you what you need, that's really all you need to run a sustainable business.

How can you find out if AgentPro247 in a valid option your area? I think it just takes some testing. Pick a few counties, pull a few lists and sent out a few batches of, say, 100 mailers each. You'll find that sometimes the results are great and sometimes they're terrible. The trick is to figure this out without blowing your budget and wasting too much time in the process.

If you need a quick rundown of how to pull a list from AgentPro247 (if/when you ever want to go that route) - you can reference this overview here: