All Forum Posts by: Richard Elvin

@Stephanie McMullen Welcome to BP!

You mentioned, "My only complaint is that they couldn't stick to the agenda to save their life...". They absolutely stick to "their" agenda. Their agenda is to keep the attendees off balance so that by the end of the presentation the attendee's head is spinning with "10X" and "millions of dollars" and whatever, so that $25,000 sounds like a small number. Google cognitive dissonance and you'll understand the true agenda for their presentation. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
"The discomfort is triggered by the person's belief clashing with new information perceived, [or perceived new information, which is neither new nor informative] wherein the individual tries to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort." The presenter will create the discomfort by disjointed stories, abrubt changes in tone/direction, etc; then offer a solution to resolve the discomfort, ei, buy this $25k program. lol 

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

...

Stop being a cheap you know what and hire an attorney.

I would also say, stop coming to BP and asking legal advice. It has surprised me how many people will come to a forum to ask strangers on the internet legal questions, rather than pay for an hour with an attorney. Most of the time I just keep scrolling.
I believe a good business attorney is just one of the costs of doing business. I also like having a relationship so that if/when there's a problem I'm already known to them and not just some joker off the street. (I'm pretty opinionated about using a local attorney vs online when creating a business entity. That online website that saved you a few dollars isn't going to stand beside you in court if you get sued) In business, like in life, relationships matter!

"Too bad the others missed...", we didn't miss that. We've just been in this long enough to know that three years is too little time to have a deep grasp of real estate. 

This is no different than the stock brokers that were selling "just buy tech" in the late 90's or the real estate "experts" that were telling people "the sophisticated people are buying on interest only, ballon payment, loans, then selling before the balloon is due" in the late 2000's. It's something that works in exploding growth markets, but doesn't correlate to a 30+ yr investment plan. Jake clearly said he did rental arbitrage from 2020 to 2023+, but comparing that short time of explosive growth to the next 30+ yrs and then claiming to be a "real estate coach" is, to quote JD above, "kind of presumptous".

My initial thoughts are in line with what @JD Martin said. 

First, congrats on getting where you are! That's an awesome achievement! 

Second, you got in right before the market exploded. It's kinda like someone buying a tech stock in the late 90's, then telling everyone how to make millions in the stock market. A strategy that worked from 2020 to 2023 is hardly blip in the market for real estate. I am glad this worked for you, but you are implying that following the same strategy that worked in 2020 will work the same in 2024, while ignoring the rate increases, rent increases, exponential increases in furnishings, the maturation of the STR market and increased competitiveness that brings.

Realistically, if we only look at 2020 to 2023, the best strategy would be to buy *anything* decent on the MLS and hold for two to three years. I don't think anyone worth listening to is advising that right now. Markets change with time. I could call myself a genius for buying the house I did in 2019, it's gone up over 60% since I bought it, however, it's not my genius, it's the fact the market overall, and especially SE TN, exploded during 2020-2023. I happened to buy at the right time. It would be ignorant of me to ignore that and assume I can buy whatever decent house is listed and expect a 60% increase in 4-ish years.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but you are ignoring (maybe inexperienced to the point of not realizing) that your data is from a historically unique period in real estate and shouldn't be extrapolated to an if/then equation.

I hope you do make it to being a millionare by the time you're 35!

@Verna Medlin "So now what does wife do when she can't afford to hire a lawyer to straighten out the mess?".
There are answers here from people much, much more experienced than I, so take anything I say with a grain (or several) of salt.

I see a few options:

1) Check with the local DA on your options for pursuing your ex for fraud. What you've described, not a lawyer so just opinion, sounds like fraud. Check with several attorneys, including the local DA's office. There may be resources for you, legal aid, etc. Personally I would do this first regardless of my next move. I would also ask the DA, hypothetically of course, what would happen if I then did option 2 or 3 and the ramifications of such.

2) Nothing. Keep getting the rent checks from the "property manager". (Personally, this is not a route I would take, but everyone is different and sometimes the stress of dealing with something isn't worth the financial return)

3) Contact the other injured party in this nightmare, the "tenant" that is being sold your house. They may have entered the purchase agreement in good faith, not realizing they are being defrauded. There are a lot of youtube influencers that make these scenario's sound like they are perfectly normal, even though they verge on, or are, outright fraud. The "tenant" may have more resources to pursue a fraud charge. Remember that they are, at least it's likely, a victim in this too. How would you feel in their shoes? They think they are buying a house only to find out the person selling them the house isn't actually the owner. Use verbal judo to help the tenant see that you both are victims. Use statements that identify with them, "Yes, I am also angry at "PM/Ex/etc"! I really can't believe they did this to you! I know, right, we've really been defrauded!". This can help redirect their anger away from you, to the person(s) that committed fraud, and get them to identify with you, ie, "We need to resolve this" vs them thinking "You're trying to take my house". You want them, by the end of the conversation to realize you are an ally working against the one's that defrauded you both. (I worked in customer service previously, verbal judo is a required skill IMO)

4) Go nuclear. Evict the "tenant". If they claim to have ownership advise them that they are the victim of fraud and that the house is legally yours. Ask to see any paperwork that has your name, the one you've stated is on the deed, on the contract. If you've already attempted option 3, this shouldn't be a surprise to them. Let them know that you are very sorry that they are a victim of fraud and that you will be glad to do anything in your power to assist them in legal restitution, but you are not the one that defrauded them. This will likely kick of a flurry of lawsuits, so expect that. (This is the route I would take, push the problem back to the one's that created it in the first place. That said, this route is likely to be time and energy consuming as well as stressful.)

Just my thoughts. The idea being that if you can't find an attorney that will help without money out of pocket you can't afford, then move to recover your house and let the other victims respond. 

I would talk with an attorney first, because I don't really see a scenario where you're not going to need an attorney. (maybe option 2) Whether you initiate a lawsuit, or move to evict and then are sued, you're likely to end up in court.

I really feel for you in this. It sucks when other's actions impact our financial well being. Keep in mind you are not the only victim here, the current "tenant/homebuyer" is also a victim.

What @John Underwood said, "Make sure you discuss it with your insurance agent first to make sure they would insure this"! As long as your insurance company is good with it, I think it's an excellent addition. 

My kids are older now, but that would have been a compelling reason to choose your place when my kids were smaller. As most parents will attest, a vacation with the kids isn't much of a vacation for the parents. Having a place they can occupy themselves while the wife and I chill and watch them, (or make dinner, plan for the next day, etc) serious value add!

As @Sarah Kensinger said, "Yep, BP is beyond back and further on this topic and unfortunately a lot if it is wildly inaccurate!". This is true about almost any strategy on BP. lol

Since there is a lot of back and forth advice, I pay close attention to whom is posting what and look for trends, ie, where in their real estate journey is the person who's sharing their opinion? Is their journey the strategy I am wanting to implement?
Those two questions help me filter through the random, and sometimes contradictory, opinions here, and elsewhere for that matter.

What I have found, as a general rule, is the people that are in the planning stages, ie, they don't actually own anything, are the one's pushing LLCs and "asset protection plans" that border on the insane. (Analysis Paralysis maybe?) Their understanding of real estate is typically limited to what some youtube influencer has said on the subject. 

Most of the posts in this thread are by people that own a substantial amount of property and are successful at what they do, probably not as flashy (I don't know any of them IRL) as YT influencers, but they are where I want to get to. Personally I would (and have for a couple of them) ask for their opinion and would take that to the bank. 

It goes back to the idea to “Never take advice from someone you wouldn’t trade places with.” -Darren Hardy (per Google). 

The best advice on being a YT influencer would be from a YT influencer. The best advice on real estate strategies, is from people that are already where I want to get to. Not to say I don't consider all advice, everyone had to start somewhere, but the advice from someone that is " where I want to get to" is the advice I'll lean on heavily. Also not to say every YT'er is only an influencer, but it can be hard sometimes to tell if they are legit or just really good marketers.

@Amit Shukla I realize you already summarized this, but hope this is helpful to anyone reading through this thread. 

What @Bruce Lynn said, "%100.... and learn by doing....you can save a lot of guru money this way and at the end you still have a piece of real estate."! 100%!

Learn by doing locally first. Don't spend your downpayment on a guru, use it to buy your first house or duplex! You'll learn more by doing and "at the end you still have a piece of real estate"!

@Chris Seveney I absolutely love this, "I figured I would invest in real world experience instead of paying a guru $20,000 to teach me what I could learn online."! 

So many people spend thousands for an education that has a very low roi. If they had instead used the money to get started, with personal research and due diligence, they would be lightyears ahead.

Maybe I should start a YT channel. "Don't pay me, use that money as a downpayment on a nice house in a decent neighborhood! Don't expect to make anything from that house for ~10 years. Repeat. In 10-20 years you will be wealthy!". lol (The theory is that simple. I wish it were that easy to find nice houses in decent neighborhoods that aren't priced sky high.)

@Patrick K. You are correct, I added the setup costs spread across the 36 month term, then again as a one time cost. Good catch! This is why I go through formulas, and have others double check them, before creating spreadsheets. Lol