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All Forum Posts by: Rachel C.

Rachel C. has started 0 posts and replied 15 times.

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35

Relevant news article!

Landlord must pay tenant whose allergies were triggered by neighbor's support dog, court rules

DES MOINES — An Iowa City tenant with a severe allergy to pet dander will receive damages of one month’s rent from a landlord who allowed another tenant to have an emotional support dog in a building with a no-pet policy, according to an Iowa Supreme Court ruling Tuesday.

In a 4-3 decision, the court overturned a district court ruling that concluded the landlord, 2800-1 LLC, shouldn’t have allowed the tenant to have a dog because of the other tenant’s pet allergies, but then dismissed the case because the law governing accommodations for emotional support animals wasn’t clear.

Chief Justice Susan Christensen, who wrote for the majority, said the two tenants — Karen Cohen, who had severe allergies, and David Clark, who had the dog — had the landlord in a “pickle” trying to accommodate both of them. However, the landlord, who isn’t identified by name in the ruling, should have denied the dog request because Cohen lived there first and the dog posed a direct threat to her health.

The court concluded that Cohen, who suffered allergic attacks, was entitled to her claims of breach of lease and breach of the “covenant of quiet enjoyment.”

The ruling shows Cohen has a “medically documented severe allergy” to pet dander that causes nasal congestion, swollen sinuses and excess coughing. Her allergic reaction is more severe when exposed to cats, requiring her to carry an epinephrine auto-injectable device to protect against anaphylactic shock.

She needed an apartment that didn’t allow pets and signed a lease from 2800-1 LLC on Nov. 11, 2015 for the term of July 2016 to July 2017. Cohen relied on the lease that stated no pets were allowed in the building.

On Jan. 18, 2016, Clark signed a lease to rent an apartment down the hall from Cohen during the same lease period, according to the ruling. Clark’s lease also included the no-pet provision.


I guess you can get sued if you do allow ESAs and sued if you don't.

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Rachel C.:

"Click bait" is pretty harsh. That person is in a rare situation where animals can't be discriminated against, but that doesn't make the suggestion wrong for everyone else and it certainly doesn't mean my advice is not sound. Why would you apply his situation to the rest of the world but consider my consider my experience with 10,000 leases as unsound advice? 

I'll try to see if BP can give me a demographic break-down of members. I would venture to guess over 90% of members are American and over 90% of all members are in areas that allow pet fees or increased rent.

No rule is applicable to every situation. My advice is sound and the vast majority of Landlords would be wise to learn how to market themselves as pet-friendly, develop a process for screening both tenants and animals, and then learning how to monetize that. This is a website specifically designed for people to become better investors, which (gasp!) includes making a profit. The average Landlord could increase their return by 10% - 20% through reasonable measures without negatively increasing risk.

But, it's still (mostly) a free country and you're welcome to take my advice or ignore it


Hi Nathan! Sorry! I didn't realize you would feel that the term 'click bait' would be harsh. Maybe just a different view on the topic? I do think I've seen many posts in this thread that anecdotally demonstrate that allowing pets have had some serious financial drawbacks for many landlords. Please don't take it personally if I point out additional aspects of this topic. It's an internet forum so this will happen sometimes and my views are not a statement about whether or not your advice is sound! It seems like you've taken a defensive tone and my intentions were not at all to make you feel bad or dismiss your advice. It's clear you've offered a lot of insightful and actionable advice for how someone might be able to mitigate risks of allowing pets and I agree that it might be an important way to increase profits. Or allowing pets could have financial repercussions as described by @IrenaBelkofer. (Ouch!) There are pros and cons to all strategies and allowing pets will work for many and not great for others. I know you like to keep mentioning how experienced you are and how many leases you have. (AWESOME!) So you are able to spread out risks in ways that help keep your ROI stable. Many members here don't have 400 doors. So if you only 5 doors and you run into a big pet problem, you simply may not have the reserves to necessarily recover in a financially beneficial way.

(PS- The 'it's a free country" made me happy. Hadn't heard that in an argument since I was a kid! Really brought me back to simpler times. Thank you.)

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Lisa Tiedgen:

How do you protect from liability to the landlord in the event the pet bites a neighbor or neighbors dog etc...? Wouldn't the landlord take the risk here?

Hi Lisa,

You can see my previous post on this topic on the top of page two. (Link for your convenience.)

You need to look really carefully at your landlord insurance policy to see what is covered. Many policies have dangerous breed exclusions. If a person is fatally mauled or maimed or another pet is fatally mauled or maimed on your property and the breed is excluded by your insurance, you are liable for damages.

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Matt C.:

I just read the entire thread and the article.

For me personally, I am in a fairly high demand area so don't get much from the benefits of opening up to pets.

I do have some observations though, but first a brief primer on Ontario, Canada pet related rules. Of course the standard caveat - not legal advice, do your own research, etc.

OK, the rules:

Ontario’s Residential Tenancies Act does not permit landlords to include “no pet” clauses in rental agreements. The only exception is if the property is a condominium and the condominium corporation’s declaration prohibits pets.

Interestingly, a landlord can refuse to rent to a person who has a pet (no discrimination clause), but a landlord cannot evict a tenant simply because they were unaware of a pet, or because the pet was adopted after the tenant moved in. A tenant can only be evicted if a pet is making too much noise, damaging the unit, causing an allergic reaction to others, or is considered to be inherently dangerous. Even then, in order for a landlord to take action, the landlord first must bring the issue to the attention of the tenant and the tenant has the ability to mitigate the issue. If there is damage done to the property, the tenant can opt to repair the damage. If the animal is disturbing neighbours, the tenant might prevent the animal from being outside and limit its exposure to neighbours, if the animal is upsetting a fellow tenant's allergies due to fur contaminating the communal laundry machine, the pet owner can do their laundry elsewhere. Only after all that is exhausted the landlord must apply to the LTB for an order terminating the tenancy before kicking people and pets out.

Also, a landlord is not allowed to charge a pet deposit. 
A landlord is allowed to ask for a last month’s rent deposit, as well as a key or pass card deposit, BUT the rent deposit must be applied to a tenant’s last month’s rent, and the key deposit must be given back to the tenant upon the return of keys. It is illegal for the landlord to use these deposits for anything else, such as to pay for damage caused to the unit by people or pets.

Further, most municipalities in Ontario have their own restrictions on the number of pets that can live in any individual home. In Toronto for example, no dwelling can house more than three dogs, or more than six cats.

SUMMARY - In Ontario, landlords cant do much about pets after the place is rented. Even if you asked and they lied on their application that they dont have any pets, you cant evict them for a fraudulent application. 

This means the news is not good for Ontario landlords:

1. While allowing pets on the lease just makes life easier as, hopefully, they are truthful and upfront and not hide and bring them in later since I cant do much at that point, I cant force them to pay more. I might reason with them the additional risk I am taking and quote them a higher monthly fee, but its iffy.

2. I cannot force them for any animal/pet deposits or advances, similar to NYS it seems like. Similar to above, I can however ask them for an animal fee, and might reason with them for one but cant force them to pay one

3. I CAN and DO ask for tenants insurance, but am yet to find any policy that has pet related damages to my property covered in that.

4. I can't restrict the animal type, unless the city by-law allows me to. I am yet to find a by-law that prevents any cat breeds - and they are the worst.

So, basically, all that I can do is regular inspections to check for damage.. SIGH.

Oh and you cant do "too many" inspections either -- apparently even doing more than once a quarter may jeopardize the tenant's "right to quiet enjoyment of the rental premises".

And Lets not even go into how difficult it is to evict someone even if there is damage, and even more difficult is to get them to pay for damages.

If people have ideas, I am all for it!

 Hi Matt, this is  a really good example of why I think blanket statements such as 'you SHOULD allow pets' needs to be understood as more of a click-bait title than sound advice. For me, I will probably consider allowing pets with some serious protections in place but for you, it's pretty clear that you aren't in a position to maintain your investment if pets start causing damage to your property. Maybe you could consult with an attorney that in your area that only represents landlords to see if there is a way you can navigate this.

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Shane H.:

@Rachel C.

It's the exact reasons you point out that gave them such an opportunity. (I speak for myself as a millennial by the way.) As we turned of age the market crashed. Anyone who had any financial literacy would have started buying into the super low market. I must admit while I contributed to my account during the financial crisis I took it out too soon due to lack of financial literacy. The real estate market crashed as well, just before it was time for millennials to start buying homes. What did millennials do? They waited until prices sky rocketed again to start buying. You can't possibly think that was a smart strategy. Fear prevented millennials from buying. Not the market. You should get into student loan debt... That's the driving factor of millennials poor financial position. And it's a choice they made. Another poor choice. If they had borrowed money to buy homes instead of to get college degrees they wouldn't use, and invested in the market instead of Starbucks and iphones, millennials would be quite wealthy. I made some of those same mistakes which set me back. I've recovered quite well. The pandemic is a fear based decline yet again. It seems this generation is plagued by fear. Fear that needs to be overcome to reap the rewards of the opportunities we have had afforded us!

Do you have any sources? Any sources whatsoever? Data perhaps? How about a financial analyst's opinion? Or we could even lower the bar as far as possible, how about a quote from a millennial saying, "My economic opportunities are the bomb, yo!" Anything besides your own personal 'old man shakes fist at cloud' rant?

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Rachel C.:

@Nathan Gesner

Just a heads up, this study was funded by North Shore Animal League. So they had a conclusion in mind when they began this study which means any investors relying on this study should be very wary of taking it at face-value. NSAL tout themselves as being 'leaders in the no-kill movement' which at first seems like a humane policy but in reality, animals that are unplaceable due to health or violent behaviors are perpetually traumatized in these shelters since they can't be placed in homes. It is a harrowing life for them.

Big takeaway here - Conducting a 'study' that encourages landlords to allow pets in rental homes furthers the NSAL's financial interests because much of their sources of funding are dependent on being a no-kill shelter. They don't have landlord's best interests in mind. They are using the survey to grow and maintain their sources of revenue by keeping more pets out of shelters because they are expensive to keep. Best to just take these types studies with a proverbial grain of salt. There is a pet lobby actively encouraging policies on multiple fronts. Just in the U.S. pet economy alone, sales are projected to exceed $75 billion this year, up from $72.5 billion in 2018 and a doubling of 2005’s $36 billion. If more landlords allow pets, then this sector can continue to grow more rapidly especially since economic disparity and the multiple crises that have hobbled those unfortunate enough to be millennials make home-ownership completely out of reach for most of them.

Just because they have a dog in the fight (see what I did there?) doesn't mean the data is incorrect. I read the entire thing several times and it jives with real-world data I've gained over the years from thousands of leases, thousands of tenants, and thousands of animals.

When their study says children cause more damage than pets, I agree and it's something I share with Landlords all the time. When they say Landlords are more likely to make more money rather than lose money, I agree and it's something I share with Landlords all the time. When they say the risk is higher because Landlords fail to screen or enforce rules, I agree and it's something I share with Landlords all the time.

HA! Yes, they do have a dog in this fight! And I completely agree. Data doesn't have a bias. However, that is only true if the data was collected without an end goal in mind. Unfortunately, in this case and many others, research needs to be funded and whoever funds it has a million ways to manipulate it. So understanding where the data came from is an important aspect to understanding what info is reliable.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain

Every landlord's investment strategy, tenant pool and risk tolerance is going to be different. For many people, allowing pets just isn't worth the hassle and will ultimately hurt their bottom line.

I think a more appropriate title to this post may have been: For some landlords, it may be worth considering allowing pets! 

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35
Originally posted by @Shane H.:

@Rachel C.

This "unfortunate millennials" who have been unable to make home ownership a reality, have no put in a valiant effort due to their preconceived notion that it wasn't possible. Millennials have had one of the greatest opportunities to build wealth early in life that has been afforded to any generation in the last hundred years. I just wish I knew more earlier on to have taken advantage of it sooner.

Put in no valiant effort? I don't think it's accurate to make a blanket statement about an entire generation of people. Especially since they have suffered from one of the most financially devastating economic crises of our lifetimes.

I found some data directly from the US government to support my claim.

From the United States Senate Joint Economic Committee (<<< Click Link for Source)

"Millennials are still recovering from the financial crisis, which will likely put a permanent dent in their long-term economic security. The financial crisis, which began as many millennials were entering the workforce for the first time, has dampened economic opportunities for the entire generation. Negative effects include higher rates of underemployment and unemployment, wage stagnation or declines, and limited economic mobility. Millennials are less likely to earn more than their parents than any previous generation in American history. (Emphasis Added.)

In 2017, millennials earned a median income of roughly $20,010, while the current unemployment rate for millennials ages 25 to 34 and likely not in college is 4.2 percent.

The Economic State of Millennials in America
Rates of homeownership are falling among millennials, undercutting the generation’s ability to build long-term wealth. The financial crisis had a significant impact on young adult homeownership, with a large share of millennials opting to move back home to regain their economic footing.8 Millennials of color were disproportionately affected by the housing bubble and bursting, which damaged their creditworthiness and made it more difficult to obtain a mortgage."

I just pulled some relevant aspects from the report but feel free to review the entire report.

And now they have to contend with a pandemic that has caused the unemployment rate to skyrocket to 13.4%. (Data straight from the US department of labor.)

This is the highest level of unemployment since The Great Depression. (See chart below, data straight from US Bureau of Labor Statistics.)

And don't get me started on student load debt compared with previous generations.

SHANE - Do you have some trustworthy sources of information for your claim that 'Millennials have had one of the greatest opportunities to build wealth early in life that has been afforded to any generation in the last hundred years"? 

If so, I'd would love to see it! Please post!

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35

@Michael Ablan

Does your landlord insurance policy have any breed restrictions?

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35

@Victor Avelino

Many insurance companies exclude dogs that were specifically bred for aggression. It's an unpopular thing to say but pit bull-type dogs account for between 60 and 70% of all fatal human attacks even though they make up less than 6% of the total dog population in America. (Forbes article) So if you look carefully at your landlord's insurance policy, you may very well find that if you do allow these dogs into your properties, even if you were deceived about the breed by the tenant, the insurance company can deny covering any damages resulting from these types of dogs. Many shelters and tenants will intentionally try to mislabel the breed as 'lab-mix' or 'retriever mix' to try to get around breed-specific regulations designed to protect against dangerous dogs. 


So you asked what if something happens if there is a fatality or severe disfigurement at your property by a breed of dog that your insurance excludes? Well the insurance won't cover damages and you as the landlord get sued and are responsible for any civil judgements brought against you. It is a somewhat rare occurrence but can be financially catastrophic.

Definitely something to pay attention to if you allow dogs in your rentals.

Post: Why you SHOULD allow animals

Rachel C.Posted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Portland OR / Los Angeles CA
  • Posts 15
  • Votes 35

@Nathan Gesner

Just a heads up, this study was funded by North Shore Animal League. So they had a conclusion in mind when they began this study which means any investors relying on this study should be very wary of taking it at face-value. NSAL tout themselves as being 'leaders in the no-kill movement' which at first seems like a humane policy but in reality, animals that are unplaceable due to health or violent behaviors are perpetually traumatized in these shelters since they can't be placed in homes. It is a harrowing life for them.

Big takeaway here - Conducting a 'study' that encourages landlords to allow pets in rental homes furthers the NSAL's financial interests because much of their sources of funding are dependent on being a no-kill shelter. They don't have landlord's best interests in mind. They are using the survey to grow and maintain their sources of revenue by keeping more pets out of shelters because they are expensive to keep. Best to just take these types studies with a proverbial grain of salt. There is a pet lobby actively encouraging policies on multiple fronts. Just in the U.S. pet economy alone, sales are projected to exceed $75 billion this year, up from $72.5 billion in 2018 and a doubling of 2005’s $36 billion. If more landlords allow pets, then this sector can continue to grow more rapidly especially since economic disparity and the multiple crises that have hobbled those unfortunate enough to be millennials make home-ownership completely out of reach for most of them.