All Forum Posts by: Peter Crisp

IMHO there are no easy markets right now anywhere - NB ON or anywhere in Canada. For me, it's all about the deal and what value I can add. At the prices people are willing to pay for 'turn-key', I'd just buy a REIT and sleep better in a lot of cases. But every market has it's challenges. Windsor in 2008 was easy pickings for properties, but it came with 50% vacancy rates and low rents. I can still find way more deals than the money or time I have to invest in but it's just plain hard work to find them. I'm also interested in meeting sometime - in Coquitlam, Surrey or Vancouver. Perhaps in June past June 17th?

I'm in Surrey, BC (also Peter) and I'd be happy to meet you to swap notes. I just sold a property in Windsor (a fourplex). I could have held it but I wanted to balance debt and cash out. Windsor is and always has been cyclical and while I wouldn't say it's over-priced, it's fully valued, the pickings are slim for good properties, and I see some downside risk as the auto sector cools off. I won't say that I'm a Windsor specialist but I know that market pretty well so if you want in I can make some suggestions. There are other markets in Ontario worth looking at also - I scan them regularly.

I think good property owners can do well in any market, but the tight rent controls which probably don't even cover inflation are a problem in Ontario and professional tenants in Ontario can make life miserable for Landlords. I'm looking at properties in Ontario, but I have more invested in New Brunswick for a few reasons and the lack of rent control is one of them (NB has other problems, but not this). As for BC, it's very hard to find much that makes sense except very far out. It is do-able but it's mainly in areas such as investing in new projects or pre-sales. In fact, the pickings across Canada are pretty slim at prices that make much sense to me. You can find them, but there are a lot of shoppers out there. A lot of investors are going to the States, but I don't know the markets well enough, I can't add value, and currency risk exists so I've stayed clear.

As for financing, I can talk off-line and share my experiences if that's helpful. You can do a lot with HELOCs but it's way easier to spend the money than pay down the loans, so you have to be careful.

I have an instructive lesson on tax sales. I had my Property Manager have a closer peek at a place that looked decent from the outside - some new windows, a new roof and a back deck. Could maybe put in $2000 to start, get it rented for $500/month, put a roof on next year and it might work. Closer look today - disaster! Without going into details, there were moving things (squirrels?), all the windows were broken and it appears that someone stripped the plumbing and electrical. The tub was tilted like the Titanic at 45 degrees to the floor. Easily $20,000 as an entry fee and the house doesn't have very good 'bones' to begin with. Conclusion - not even worth $500 because the lot's probably only worth $2500, and you'd pay more to demo it. Tax sale properties are often tax sale properties for a reason! We both got our laughs for the day.

Finished work so I poured over pretty much every property in Windsor. I own a property there (which I believe was a tax sale before my time) and while I won't say I know the town like a local, I have a decent feel. My conclusion is that of the whole list, I like maybe about 3 of them. A lot are in so-so areas (C-D) and some are just orphans. I suspect the ones I like will be snapped up below retail but well above the strike price by local flippers who know the market value well, or they will pass. In the current market in Windsor, you probably won't get a deal beyond that. Probably have to wait till a big auto downturn. If you do get a property, just like a repo, expect work - and you won't be able to inspect typically inside.

The 'strike' price is the amount owed for back taxes, not market value. The City of Windsor does have a list somewhere that shows the value for tax purposes, which may or may not be close to market. It's a sealed bid and the highest above the strike price, assuming the paperwork is in order, gets the property. From what I can tell, all cities in Ontario work much the same way.

New Brunswick is different BTW. There, you bid in person cash or certified cheque. But, you only get interim title. There's a holding period for 3 months where the owner can buy back the property (I think it's the auction price plus a premium). You get reimbursed if that happens. If not, then you get clear title. A friend went through this with my assistance a couple of years back. I'm eyeing a couple of properties right now, but I can't say which ones or where. They also sell surplus properties. I just missed a duplex in good shape (in a small town) that went for $2500 a couple of years back!

Tax sales are held at pretty regular intervals by municipalities but each one in Ontario has their own dates. I check regularly. I've never bought a tax sale property myself in Ontario yet, but I've looked carefully. Most of the good properties get retracted before the sale because the owners pay the back taxes before the sale. Windsor is cyclical I find. In 2008-2010 there were more deals, but I haven't seen many good tax sale deals in the past two years (fair bid prices but no fire sale). This may change and I'll be checking the list myself tonight. Other provinces have sales / auctions - there's one going on in New Brunswick late this month for example.

Count me in also! I was hoping to meet some investors this year and I'm glad to see that someone is taking the initiative. I'm in North Surrey so maybe we can do a South-of-the-Fraser Meetup. If it helps I am and have been active organizing a couple of Meetup groups.

I got this because I monitor 'BC' for British Columbia, where I live. I'm not sure why this is complex to analyze. The roof is shot and it's structurally unsound (by the time you try you may as well start from scratch). So the property is worth land value - taxes owed - teardown cost - all the hassles that go with that. It should be easy to come up with a number. So it only makes sense to buy if it's worth building or holding. BTW a 32' wide lot with a teardown recently sold in Vancouver for $2.7 million CDN - $300,000 over the asking price. It made the National News.

For what it's worth, I'm with Pawan on this and I keep looking for holes. Population estimates predict 1.2 million more people in the region by 2041, and with land at a premium, this will come from infill and increased density. BC's growth is solid right now. Based on cranes and shovels, at least in Surrey, I don't see any deceleration - likely the opposite. So it makes sense to invest to the max, then re-invest either locally or diversify to other areas.

I've been to China several times, and the transformation in the country has been amazing. But the air, land and water pollution issues are very challenging. Even without getting into politics, just being able to afford to move to a place with clean air and water is a major driver and will continue to be.

It is jarring to me that we have stories of helicopters to luxury locations, at the same time as stories of one-way bus tickets from SK to BC for a couple of guys that sound down in their luck. This is straying out of BiggerPockets territory. But, the strains of affordability and what to do about it could get ugly (e.g. ban strata rentals vs. force them open; go after illegal suites or turn a blind eye;  ban AirBnB or tax, etc.).

Very helpful comments here and good memories. I grew up in Dorchester  (parents are still there). My wife and I decided to move to Surrey 11 years ago from London. I've thought about investing in both Woodstock or London but when I've checked it's just a bit pricey for a long-distance investor. One of my favourite areas anywhere in Canada is Wortley Village and I gather that it's a good income property area. Comments about Fanshawe remind me of a university party near Fanshawe, where so many people jumped at once to test out the cheap construction the ceiling drywall fell down. I didn't cause the damage but I do remember getting out fast, and I now shudder at the cost of repairs!

My only concern about SW Ontario (and one of the reasons we moved 'out west' is that the auto industry seems to be on a slow one-way trip south. It will be interesting to see if medical or other industries fill the gap.

Hi Matthew,

I feel your pain. We have a rental house in Surrey, and with real estate prices continuing to rise I've thought of cashing out. But nothing better makes any sense. I guess it depends on your goals and time horizon and how much leverage you want. I don't have any special insight, but I don't see much risk of a housing price crash or even a substantial correction in the near future. If you do, I'd like to know!