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All Forum Posts by: Paul Grachan

Paul Grachan has started 1 posts and replied 2 times.

Post: ROI, DSCR, COC, CAP rate Oh My!

Paul GrachanPosted
  • Hazel Crest, IL
  • Posts 2
  • Votes 1

Caveat to my comments here. I'm getting back into real estate after having my portfolio and life derailed from 2008 for the last 11 years, so I might have a skewed, albeit overly conservative view on all of these topics. 

It seems to me what we all need to do is figure out all the average numbers for those calculations for similar properties in areas and see how things compare. Then set those numbers your risk tolerance. 

It feels like a dashboard of all those numbers would give you a better sense of the true output/value to you of that property. That seems tedious but data is available and your friend when it comes to larger picture and it takes the emotion out. Being realistic about costs is a vital part of making this effort effective. 

BTW, no one should rely on long term "appreciation" of property for "income" as a couple of studies have shown that real estate on average has not gained value in 100 years when factoring in all costs. The best you can hope for is a break even years down the road while pulling out income in the mean time. That's why these calculations are important.

Michael Evans I believe you are accidentally illustrating the point in the danger of isolating a favorite calculation and basing a purchase decision off of that vs taking a few sides and comparing them. At one time I thought like you, then 2008.

On one side you have 1 set of risks, expenses and time to manage against. You also only have 1 market value to worry about the bottom falling out on (aka you can cash out and take your lumps if need be). On the other side you have all of those things times 10 for what is most likely a 30 year time period (aka you'll be upside down on many properties making an escape plan very difficult and long lasting). Leverage definitely supercharges ROI, but it isn't your ROI. Everyone except math nerds can probably stop reading, point made, but numbers to follow...

Use compounding to acquire additional fully paid for properties against your example and see the outcome in 30 years. 

Excluding the reality of expenses of owning properties (as your example does for easy illustration purposes), in year 18 you have 10 fully paid for $100k properties (aka a million dollars) generating $150,000 per year in income and slowly escalating your risk now with capital to pay for it. In your supercharged roi example you still have the same yearly income as year 1 and 12 more years of paying for those properties which will have cost you $1,642,000 to purchase by the end leaving you with an income of $150,000 yearly. Playing out the compounding example at 30 years you'd easily have 25+ ($2.5m worth plus excess funds from each year after 19) with a yearly income of $375,000. 

Post: Experienced but burned in Chicago

Paul GrachanPosted
  • Hazel Crest, IL
  • Posts 2
  • Votes 1

End game for here... I need to find a ray of hope. An honest opportunity to set my family up for when I am gone, which will be much earlier than I would like. Facing that fact has created urgency. I understand the upside in real estate and I also understand the treadmill of my corporate job which will not achieve what I need in the time I need it. Background: I got into real estate after finding myself homeless having been laid off of my job at a religious organization serving people, (I left my corporate career to do so and made less than $9,000 per year). This happened right after 9-11. I worked with immigrant construction workers for $30 for 10-hour days after I was unable to find a job of any sort. I have a degree and post graduate work at Yale, I do not drink or do drugs, BTW, I was simply over qualified for what was available. 

Through that, I learned skills and the flow of work sites and how to manage workers. By chance I was contacted by someone from HS who wanted to catch up. He had a bunch of money, I had knowledge, we teamed up and started flipping. It brought enough money to get a home, stabilize, prosper. But my lack of long term market understanding lead to over extension on my personal buy-and-hold properties. 2008 destroyed me as 95% of my tenants decided they no longer needed to pay... and some even decided that they were entitled to my mechanical systems and metal materials like plumbing and wiring... one even burned down a multi-family building. Losing everything we had has thrown off the course of my family to this day. I work 2-3 jobs every week. I have taken jobs I hated for 8 years. None has the opportunities or fulfillment that I saw while in real estate. I know its a different environment now, but I know there's something here for those of us who are willing to put in the time and be realistic with goals. I'm hoping to find what I'm looking for with the help of communities like this.