All Forum Posts by: Nate McCarthy

 Thanks for the insight Chris, I'll have to look into what you're saying a little more to make sure I understand it. That insight and the very reasonable concerns you raise regarding deals "based on something hopefully happening" are much appreciated and exactly why I ask these questions on these forums. 

You're very prolific on BP! Thank you for your responses on multiple posts I've made including this one.

Thank you everyone for the super-sound advice! @Roland S. I agree that the price for an inspection seems to be to be a small price to pay for those benefits, that was my original thought on this. However others make the very good point that 1) a lot could change between the time of inspection and the time of sale (although I'm not too worried about this as the house is unoccupied), 2) other strategies such as paying cash, etc are much more likely to influence the seller than my eagerness to pay for an inspection, and 3) I'm probably more likely to learn more from a walk-through with an experienced GC than from a mere inspection. The appeal of this house is, of course, the ability to force appreciation, so without a doubt if the numbers don't make sense then it's not for us. 

I really appreciate everyone's input. I'll keep you updated!

My wife and I are looking at a house to buy for our first home. It's not on the market yet and may not be for a few months, but we know the owners have the intent to sell. Both we and the sellers have expressed our inexperience and our desire for legal protection to not get taken advantage of in a transaction. 

My wife and I have been discussing paying for a home inspection now, before the home is listed, for 2 reasons: 1) to get a better idea of what we would be getting ourselves into with this home and of its value, and 2) to demonstrate our desire and intent to buy this home, to hopefully help us stand out as potential buyers. 

Any thoughts on this? I haven't gotten an estimate for a home inspection yet. I'm imagining that it would be a small price to pay to increase our confidence in moving forward with this purchase, getting a better idea of the funds we'd need, and to give us a better chance of being the chosen buyers. But I've never done this before and maybe it's a crazy idea. I really appreciate any and all input from more experienced homebuyers and investors. Thank you!

My wife and I are looking at buying our first home and a close family friend with money has offered to pay for the home until we can qualify for a conventional loan (we're both changing jobs and I've been in school and not working full time). Ignoring for the moment the potential dilemmas with working with a family friend as a lender, I wanted to get some suggestions as to how to structure this "loan." 

The way this person has phrased it is that they would buy the house, and then sell it to us when we can get a loan. My concern with this approach is 1) that they might be subject to capital gains (or something) for selling the house within 2 years (a timeframe in which I hope we'll be able to get a favorable loan), and 2) that is time we are missing out on ownership of the house for tax purposes--that is, if we were hoping to sell this place in 2-3 years (for example) my understanding is that we'd be able to do so tax-free if that were our primary residence for 2 years. So, if the family friend were to own it for a year or so, those 2 minimum years of that home being our primary residence would only start counting down once we were able to buy the property ourselves.

Hopefully that explanation wasn't too complicated. Basically I'm not sure if the family friend buying the house and then selling it to us is the most efficient in terms of taxes and other transaction costs. To be sure we will have a lawyer involved in any deal we make with this person, but I wanted to canvas the BiggerPockets crowd for suggestions as to how to conduct a deal like this. 

Thank you for any and all suggestions!

Hi Nicholas! This would be my first foray into real estate investing... and I absolutely 100% agree that the best move is to establish a track record using my own money and conventional loans before considering using private money. You and the other posters here have been generous in indulging me in this exercise of considering this "partnership" / BRRRR, but demonstrating that we can invest successfully on our own power before seeking out partners is not only my strong preference but just sound business logic.

As a new investor my head starts to spin when I start to think about investing, and the many gaps in my knowledge reveal themselves: how to structure a partnership? How to take advantage of tax benefits? How to know if a BRRRR makes sense in any given deal when considering refi terms? And on and on. This is what spurred me to ask the initial question and I'm truly grateful for the responses it's gotten. Maybe in the future I'll just start any post with the headline "NEWBIE INVESTOR QUESTION" and I'll get sympathetic pats on the back instead of bewilderment at my zany ideas that are unbecoming of someone experienced 😂

Well it sounds like this would-be deal is uniformly looked at with suspicion and concern from those of you responding. I appreciate the feedback!

@Tim Delaney I agree that involving myself as a renter/contractor would indeed complicate things. And yes, after reading all your feedback I can see that, as I suspected, a fast flip is probably the best use of the big investor's money. Good to know too that loan terms would be more favorable with a conventional or FHA loan than a refi. That's something about which I have a lot more to learn. Unfortunately, this is all theoretical--the seller hasn't suggested a price yet 🤷‍♂️

@Marcus Auerbach yeah disputes between partners is definitely something I'm concerned about so I appreciate the input. "Simplify the structure as much as possible, have clear roles and responsibilities that are not overlapping and a clearly defined exit plan"... all great advice, and none of those things are certain in this theoretical partnership 😂

@Melanie P. No attempts to "pull one over" on anyone here--in fact this deal and partnership idea were brought to me by the other would-be investors (including the deal finder), because they're interested in making it possible for my wife and I to move closer to them (currently living in different states). So, I floated the idea here on BiggerPockets to see what more experienced folks would have to say about it. And you have spoken! I appreciate the feedback and valuable words of caution.

 Jake, thank you so much for your input! Two important takeaways for me:

One, it sounds like a "weighted structure" deal is in fact a possibility. I had thought as much but it's encouraging to hear from an experienced investor.

Two, it sounds like talking with a CPA is an absolute must on the tax implications of this deal!

And of course it goes without saying that any deal of this kind would involve an experienced real estate attorney--especially one that is "great" 😉

Thank you for the insight, which is both practical and encouraging! As I'd imagined, it seems like there are no hard-and-fast ways that a deal must be structured, but rather there is room for flexibility depending on the situation, and in any case consultation with experienced professionals at every level is key.

 Melanie--great question! I was hoping someone might have some ideas on how much I'd pay while occupying the investment property. My idea is: exactly as much as would make this a worthwhile investment for the parties beside myself. In other words, I'd hope to pay market price to rent the place out so the home buyers can get an optimal but realistic return on their investment.

So my goal to make this appealing to me, as a potential renter, is to also be one of the buyers. So if the deal goes right, I get a return in the form of equity on the house, and my rent is also reduced since let's say, as part owner, I would be receiving a portion of the rent (which I would be paying...). But this is where I start to wonder if this deal really works well for everyone!

I completely agree that flips must be completed fast to keep the cash mobile so it can generate yet more cash. This is exactly why I'm asking the question, because it may be the case that some of these investors would be better off either purely treating this as a flip or just moving on from this deal if they can't flip it and get their cash back within a few months. 

 Tim, thank you so much for the thoughtful response here. I think all of your suggestions are great possible ideas to do this deal! 

To simplify the scenario I'm envisioning let me put it this way: what does a BRRRR look like when one of the parties contributing to the down payment and rehab costs ultimately ends up being the renter as well?

I'm curious about this particular scenario because I'm imagining it as a way where all 3 parties (in this case) can get something out of the deal. That said, I'm grateful for the alternatives you present--you're keeping the bottom line in mind, so I appreciate your help in exploring options that achieve the bottom line for the investors.

My sister-in-law has found a house in their neighborhood that has been vacant for years, and lo and behold, the owner has passed away and the heirs are looking to sell. Lots to be figured out in this deal but let's assume for now that it's priced right for a BRRRR or flip.

My wife and I have been looking to move into a house hack in the area, and friend has just sold their house and has cash they're looking to invest in a flip. My wife's sister--the house-finder--is interested in putting some of her money into this deal, too. 

In general, I'm curious how investments with multiple investors are structured. Are returns just split proportionally according to how much each party invested? What if one party is doing more leg work? These are the scenarios I'm looking at.

Let's say the three parties (Me and my wife, friend, and sister-in-law) invest three ways, say 2:1:1, with the friend being the biggest investor. My wife and I move into the house since we are looking to move to the area anyways, and we all do a lot of the rehab ourselves, probably with my wife and I doing a little more since we would be living there.

In this case, how does the friend with cash get their money out of this deal in a time-efficient manner, since they're primarily looking at this as a flip? My thought is to BRRRR it and refinance, and they get their cut of the equity (which I assume would be split 2:1:1). However, if we paid for the house mostly in cash, does it make sense to refinance and incur a high monthly mortgage payment? This is a fundamental component of the BRRRR strategy that I have yet to understand.

Or, does it not make sense for the friend to invest in this deal if they're primarily looking to flip? I can think of a couple of seemingly great reasons to stay in the deal, which would be 1) they'd get a portion of the rent we'd be paying to live there (again, I assume this would be split 2:1:1), and 2) if we live in the house for a couple of years, couldn't we sell it tax-free, since we would be owner-occupants? Then we'd all split the tax-free profits. Or does this not apply when there are multiple owners, since only 1 of the 3 invested parties is living there?

Is there a better way to structure this deal besides proportionally splitting the profit from refinancing (and/or eventually selling) and the rent (which we'd be paying)? Again, I do not know how multi-party investments are typically structured and I'm very much looking to find out!

I'm really interested to learn how more experienced investors would approach this. Thank you so much for your insight!