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All Forum Posts by: Bob Dreher

Bob Dreher has started 0 posts and replied 46 times.

Post: Where to park savings?

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Juan Campos Just sent you a pm 

Post: MHP and Self-storage Syndication

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Bryan Hancock--great comments!!! Extremely useful insight to our group, indeed!! Thanks!

Post: Elementary IRR Question

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Julie N.    No, I don't think everyone is saying the same thing...I think it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your ananlysis...

Discounted cash flow works backwards (not forward)...discounting future cash flows distributed (from the date distributed) to Net Present Value (NPV) . This will be used to calculate your IRR...

What is does not calculate is the return which may be generated on the distributed cash until the original investmentamount is fully wound down...that requires a more complex calculation. You can certainly do this...but has nothing to do with your original request for "Elementary IRR Question..."

If you choose to calculate a total return projection over the entire investment period (including periodic distribution with reinvestment), then you need to calculate your return differently.

Hope this helps (a bit)

Post: Elementary IRR Question

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Julie N. @Brian Burke is absolutely right...

IRR, on the other hand, measures cash flows. So in your IRR example you are showing cash flow every year, which means that money is distributed to you and there is no compounding on the distributed dollars because they are no longer in the investment.

When calculating real estate investing...The Internal rate of return (IRR) for an investment is the percentage rate earned on each dollar invested for each period it is invested. No additional return on the amount distributed is assumed once the distribution has been made. IRR uses a dicounted cash flow to Net Present Value...so future periodic cash flows are calculated to arrive at an IRR, but only discounted from the future point at which they are distributed.











Post: Elementary IRR Question

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Brian Burke has perfectly illustrated the difference between IRR and CAGR...since IRR assumes cash out to invest, then the timing of cash back distributed over time...without any consideration for the additional return which may be generated by the investment of the amounted received through periodic distributions. This allows investors to compare apples to apples when anaylizing different investment options.

CAGR calculations may include things like stocks, or money market holdings which offer a reinvestment option...or other compounding investment options...generally reliant upon the options one may choose pursuant to their individual reinvestment return into which distributions are invested over the total investment period.

So, in order to make CAGR assumptions, one must assume the return generated by periodic distributions of real estate, which may be used to generate future returns over the holding period.

Post: Getting into Hard Money/Private Lending

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

Happy to help!! WishI could do the same for everyone looking for higher returns-- :)

Post: Getting into Hard Money/Private Lending

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

@Alan M. As a point of clarification, the return with Praxis is 8% annualized, with no defined maturity date...so the money is continually at work.

Just bear in mind that trips to Maui involve 'discretionary' funds...

A few more things to think about during your due diligence. 

1. Fuel prices---cost of jet fuel can have a HUGE impact on airfares. While some don't care, think about the family of four who is trying to budget for a family vacation. Even if they can rent your place for $250/nt all-in, can they afford the extra $2 grand+ to get there and back?

2. Much of the travel to Maui is international. In addition to the US economy, there are other things to consider.

A. How is the Japanese economy doing? How about Canada? 

B. How about the currency exchange rate? Yen vs the Dollar...or Canadian Dollar vs the Dollar. 

Post: Real Estate At Work - Bellevue Edition

Bob DreherPosted
  • Novato, CA
  • Posts 52
  • Votes 28

Congratulations to you and your group for choosing to support "A hero's home"...a worthy cause indeed!

For a large syndicator who is constantly cycling out of deals, the idea of co-investing is fairly easy...but what about the company in growth mode who isn't cycling out of several deals per year? The question then gets dicier. 

@Brian Burke posted a blog about a property he bought with no personal money in the deal...and what happened when it turned sour. Alignment of interests is much more than putting $50-100k in a deal...it's more about integrity and reputation! Unless, of course, you don't plan to be around for the long haul...

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/colossal-fail/

Below is an excerpt from an article in Pension & Investments...

Wall Street investment firms with real estate management subsidiaries created the strategy of co-investing to coax wary investors into real estate portfolios the firms had bought through the Resolution Trust Corp., a federal program begun in 1989 to liquidate assets held by insolvent savings and loans.

The idea of shared risk with managers gave investors comfort and worked to draw them into these investments, explained Ted Leary, president of consultant Crosswater Realty Advisors, Los Angeles. Now, co-investment is de rigueur in the industry.

“It makes everybody feel better if the general partner loses money alongside the limited partner,” Mr. Leary said in an interview.

In a letter this month to clients and colleagues, Mr. Leary wrote, “I continue to see no demonstrable evidence that manager co-investment makes a manager a better investor. In fact, some of the most dramatic loss situations I dealt with involved very significant co-investment by the manager. On the other hand, several of the most successful programs I observed had minimal manager co-investment.”

Some managers have defaulted on their co-investment, consultants say, although none would name names.

“Some managers overstretched because they bought the dream that they were selling,” Franklin Templeton's Mr. Weidner said. He would not identify any firms.

Still, not all of the big managers that made large co-investments suffered lousy returns. Many held their own, even during the latest financial crisis. Warburg Pincus LLC, Madison Capital Partners and Square Mile Capital LLC all managed to return investors' capital plus some profits, insiders said.

Alignment of interests is serious business to investors. Last August, CalSTRS bought out its partners' 10% interest in four joint ventures it entered into in 2005 with First Industrial Realty Trust, a real estate investment trust.

“The move was done to achieve full control of the properties because CalSTRS felt there was not a full alignment of interest between partners,” Mr. Duran told P&I at the time.

Most institutional investors are reviewing their real estate investment strategies and how they invest in the asset class, but few are jettisoning their co-investment requirements.

“I must admit I have not won this argument with my clients and certainly not with the consultant community,” Crosswater's Mr. Leary said.

Making changes

Ernst & Young's Mr. Grinis said real estate investment managers already are making changes. Even existing funds are getting restructured to make sure interests are more aligned with investors' interests. In essence, managers of these newly realigned funds are getting paid at the end, rather than reaping fees during the life of the fund, whether the fund makes money or not. Mr. Grinis declined to name any examples.

Paul Greenwood, managing director of Northern Lights Capital Group LLC, a private equity firm that invests in asset management firms, said, "Alignment of interest ... is crucial to the long-term success and the success in providing clients with a consistently good product."

But achieving it varies with each investment, he said.

“If I'm a start-up investment manager with no personal wealth beyond what I've invested in my firm, I might have a good case for a tight alignment with my investors,” Mr. Greenwood said. “If I'm worth $100 million and I've invested $1 million in the fund, I may have alignment with my investors, maybe or maybe not.”

Glenn Shannon, president of San Francisco-based Shorenstein Realty Services LP, agrees that co-investment is not a quick fix that automatically aligns manager and investor interests. Shorenstein has committed $500 million of the $5.4 billion raised in its nine funds since 1992, but alignment of interests is more than making a co-investment, he said.