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All Forum Posts by: Mike Klarman

Mike Klarman has started 18 posts and replied 962 times.

Post: Question unpermitted work

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

So, this is a tricky spot.  I have been here before or I should say put here before by contractors.  If you are refinancing the house and keeping it as a rental, then you may be able to get away with it because ownership is not changing hands.  If you were to sell it, the buyer would have a home inspection done and then they may uncover things and then it is possible that the city/town makes you rip things out and do it right with a permit and licensed contractor.  

Post: Hard Money Loan Increase?

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

If the loan is closed, there will be no loan increase.  If you added a contingency to the rehab then you can draw on that.  Everything else is out of pocket unfortunately.  Something else to consider is to wholesale out.  but a triplex I am guessing you want to hold so you'll have to eat these short term expenses and make it up long-term once appreciation and cashflow have increased.

Post: How Do Brokers Source Unique Lenders?

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

There's sites that offer indexes of lenders.  The big box, cookie cutter lenders that prefer the 1 - 4 properties with loan amounts under 500k are readily available and out there.  The speciality lenders are a bit harder to find.  If you are looking to do a standard fix and flip with a loan amount of 250k then your options for lenders are long.  If you want to do a purchase of a 5 unit building that has an empty lot attached with a broken down home on it and you wanna subdivide the lots and build on one and rehab the other, then the options shrink dramatically.  There's just so many lenders/brokers out there that lots of the options you're looking for you will never find.  they are either buried in the search results or not there.  When I was opening my commercial business, it was hard to find out who were the lenders for a 10 million commercial bridge loan with rehab. Those guys are not so front and center.  Lots of calling lenders, poking.  Calling brokers, poking.  Seeing if you can get an investor on the line who closed some 10 million dollar ground up deal for 40 unit building and ask them who financed it.  I always use the phone when i want intel.  I call and call and call and ask questions and right out sometimes ask someone who their out is.  Sometimes they give it up.  

The Roc Capitals, Kiavis, RCN Capitals of the world are easy to find.  Those three right there finance half the residential bridge loans in this country for the 1 - 4 properties.  Either directly or through brokers.  It's much harder to find the Socatra Capitals of the world or the Loan Streams of the world.  Capital Connect and Lynk Capital too.  These lenders that will do the luxury ground up, or the bridge loan on a 50 unit building, a 10 million refi on a commercial mixed use building.  

I'm working on a Restaurant deal right now.  First one ever for me.  a 6 million dollar purchase with about a 1 million in "rehab" which is really design work,  The structure is fine.  They are putting in a high end steak house, there's a famous R&B singer involved.

I have a contact to wall street and this guy raises money for RE deals, privately.  It's not cheap, but it's not so restrictive.

So, if I'm in for 20k on a property and at a refinance I can pull out 100k let's say.  The investor would not owe any earnings tax on that 80k margin, just it would cancel any cost deductions?

Post: Looking to Learn — Will Work for Experience (Seriously)

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

Jacob, I love the enthusiasm and offering free work for exposure is a good ask.  What kind of deals are you most interested in?

Post: Just getting started

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

George, I think we all can relate to that.  I'll say that dreams do lie within, but so do horrors.  I've seen people take a 50k education on a project because they were in over their head and things fell apart.  

I'd say think about what you want from this journey.  Research the kinds of ways to invest in real estate and see what makes most sense for you.

Also, do a credit and capital check on yourself.  What's your credit and how much capital do you have access to?  

Post: Investing out of state- Section 8

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

Like anything else, I heard good things about section 8 and I heard horror stories.  

So, there is a cost basis to these projects.  All the costs get to be deducted from the gross.  That's why it important to keep good books on all projects.  Does refinancing matter?  That depends, did you get any cash out besides your initial investment?  Refi doesn't matter in terms of of you leave money in, what would you owe on?  If you have 20k in a house on a bridge loan and at the refi you get 50k back.  Your 20k and 30k more, then yes you have a tax liability for that 30k.

If you do things out of a straight LLC you will pay 35% - 40% in inclusive taxes. If you do it out of an S-Corp and become a W2 paycheck employee of the company then you can do it at like 20% - 25% tax, or whatever your federal tax rate falls under.

Post: Hard money lenders

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

If you have no experience, there's a couple that can help you.  As long as you have the capital close with 80% leverage you should be ok.  I know you probably want 90% but that will depend on the house, the neighborhood, the lender.  If you are a 0 exp, if you get 85% take that and run with it.  You will most likely fall around 80%.

What is the entry point for the market you are looking in?

Post: Having a team, a question for all rei investors

Mike KlarmanPosted
  • Specialist
  • New Jersey
  • Posts 1,021
  • Votes 437

Hey Shaun, great question.  This isn't something that just happens accidentally or at a snap of the fingers.  I run two networks and I can tell you who are on my teams:

I have my "Point And Buy" Guy in each market.  In both it's an investor/agent/wholesaler.  The position usually wears two of those three hats.  They know the market street by street, they can give accurate ARVs just with an address or neighborhood.  They can prepare a comprehensive market comp analysis.  They're familiar with all the discount outlets for cash purchases, they also can organically generate pocket listings.  If the investor is the beachcomber then the "Point And Buy" Guy is the metal detector.

Lending, I bring to all the networks because that is my background. I have connections at all the big box and some of the boutique and a few private money outfits. I've closed hundreds or loans across several lenders so I know the process, I know the requirements, and I have established relationships with many reps at lenders and I can get my call or text answered immediately. But you need a money source for the bridge financing and then the DSCR on the way out. This is the one relationship that is never too early to start, IMO.

The GC relationship, this is a tough one. I won't lie. But you need to somehow get this to work and the Point and Buy Guy and the GC will need to work together. You'll need to get your process down as to how you will work. P and B guy finds an asset, he has to get the GC over there to get an estimate. Then they need to send you the purchase contract, the estimate for rehab, the comp report which outlines the house, neighborhood, as-is value, ARV, and last 6 month sales to back it up. GCs are tough to manage. First, believe it or not, people who are even "ok" are in high demand. Some GCs are just knock arounds in that the start a project, take in some money, do some half-*** work and then ghost or hide. That scenario plays out way more than a rockstar completion on a flip. Sad to say, but true. People lie about their outreach for labor, nobody ever says no either. No, I can't do that. You never hear that. Always yes. Can you build me a bridge to the moon? Of Course! But, this relationship is very important yet very risky as well. A GC can cause your entire project to stall, and then sink. This is the one profession where you need a license, but it means nothing as to your ability in the craft.

Your Exit agent, sometimes it is the Point and Buy guy and sometimes it's not.  In one of my markets it is, in one of them it is not.  The Exit Agent you'll want it to be a seasoned agent with a big book.  Someone that can really sell and they can generate their own buyers.  They put their own money into the marketing: pictures, virtual staging, open houses.  Make sure any contract you sign is for no more than 60 days.  Some of the fine print in these listing contracts can say 1 yr.  You gotta be careful.  You also don't want this person to just lowball list everything cause they wanna make their job easy.  Everyone needs to put your bottomline in front of theirs.

Those are the pieces that any BRRRR investor should have, there's one more layer that the pro investors have. The investors that really can get into a project for 55% - 65% ARV all in. They have capital. They've either raised it, have it, borrowed it. They get ahold of enough money to be a cash buyer and to buy at the outlets that offer steep discounts to cash buyers. One they own it, then they go to the lender and do a cashout with rehab. But they are buying at the cash window and gobbling up all the discounts. That lowers project cost by 33% - 40%, maybe more in some cases. Then something else these investors do is GC their own projects. They developed sub connections, built sub lists for all the trades involved. They have demo, drywall, kitchen and bath, floors, painting, roof/siding, and then all the licensed trades: HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical. They eliminate that risky GC layer. Eliminate their responsibility and their fees. These pro investors are doing no mark-up rehabs.

When you combine steep discount purchase with less risky no mark-up rehabs.  You find yourself in a very, very advantageous position in that you can miss the mark by 25% on your price and still make a good profit.  The investor who bought at market and tried to manage some GC on the job, if they mis my 25% they are screwed.

EDITED TO ADD

I wanted to address your question of how to progress in building this team.  That's a very fine line.  If you build too early, your pieces will fall off if you do not bring a deal in.  How many times will your Point And Buy Guy point at something and you not buy it before he starts ghosting you?  You're not his/her only client.  There is a timing component to this.  If an agent agrees to start sending you deals and you pass on two straight then I'd say expect them to drop off soon.  And on the flip side, some agents just send anything.  Most of it does not work and so you have to say no.  But until you do a deal with someone, you are nothing to them.  Nothing. Everyone in this industry whether you are investor, lender, agent, GC, wholesaler, we all deal with phonies.  All day, everyday.  So until you do a deal with a team piece you are a phony to them.  How many times will you get to send a GC to a house, ask him to sit down and price out the entire job, send it to you and then you pass.  How many times you think you have?  one, maybe two.  Most won't even do one.  Some charge for estimates for this reason.

Here's a tip: What has worked for me is to find someone with a PHD.  That's poor, hungry, driven.  The chances of you finding this savant agent with who is already established with a ton of clients to pay enough attention to you is slim to none.  The chances of finding some driven, hungry upstart to prove themselves to really give you their best, is much higher.  But again, you'll see, people drop off.  So it takes time and then you need to make sure the team works well together.  Not all personalities gel.