Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Michael Shea

Michael Shea has started 4 posts and replied 11 times.

Post: ADU Friendly Cities in San Diego

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5

Thanks everyone! Not going to lie, Dan really got me rethinking this plan...Currently researching multi-families in other markets now. 

All the costs Whitney outlined along with my construction budget seem too cost intensive for the ADU build. Finding a marginal cash-flowing SFR in a decent neighborhood in SD is challenging as well.

Capital is going further in another city 

Post: ADU Friendly Cities in San Diego

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5
Quote from @Dan H.:
Quote from @Michael Shea:

Hello All,

I'm looking into selling a condo and rolling the equity into a new investment SFR here in San Diego. The second phase of the plan is to build an ADU. I've reviewed the ADU rules on some of the different city's websites, now I realize how much variance there is just within the county...For example, Santee has a new owner occupancy requirement that will go into effect on any ADU's permitted after 2024 and a strict no STR policy, La Mesa on the other hand seems really ADU friendly.

Does anyone here have recommendations on which cities in SD county to avoid and which to explore for ADU's?


thanks!

City of San Diego is one of the more friendly ADU cities in the state.  

I would not worry about Santee owner occupied requirement as state law will ensure ADUs do not require owner occupancy.  

Even with jurisdictions being ADU friendly, adding an ADU is one of the worse RE investments.  Here are some reasons why:
1) The value added by the ADU addition is often significantly less than the cost of adding the ADU. Search the BP for ADU appraisals to encounter numerous examples. This creates a negative initial position. This negative position can consume years of cash flow to recover. Make sure you know the value the ADU will add to the property before building the ADU.
2) the financing on an ADU is typically far worse than for initial investment property acquisition or is often not leveraged (HELOC, cash out refi, etc). Leverage magnifies return.
3) The effort involved in adding an ADU is comparable or larger than a rehab associated with a BRRRR. However if I do a BRRRR I can achieve infinite return by extracting all of my investment. Due to item 1, adding an ADU can require years to start achieving any return (once the accumulated cash flow recovers the initial negative position).
4) Adding an ADU is a slow process. It can take a year or more to complete an ADU. During this time you are not generating any return from the money invested in the ADU. This amounts to lost opportunity because if you had purchased RE, at the closing it can start producing return.
5) ADUs detract from the existing structure whether this is privacy, a garage, or just yard space.
6) this is related to number 1, but there are many more buyers looking to purchase homes for their family than there are RE investors looking to purchase small unit count properties. This may affect value or time required to sell.
7) Adding an ADU does not make the property a duplex. For example in many jurisdictions I can STR units in a duplex but cannot STR an ADU (some jurisdictions will let you STR if you owner occupy). Duplex have different zoning that may permit additional units. Duplex can always add additional units via the ADU laws.
8) Related to number 1, purchasing a property with an existing ADU is cheaper than buying a property and adding an ADU. Why add an ADU if it can be purchased cheaper?
9) adding multiple ADUs or adding an ADU to a quad looses F/F conventional financing. This reduces exit options and affects the value.
10) Small number of small units is the most expensive residential development there is. This implies residential units can be built at lower costs and provide better return.
11) adding an ADU to SFH can make the SFH fall under rent control.

good luck


Really appreciate all your thoughts on this topic. I think your points are all valid and you're definitely more savvy than me lol. The adu option is still appealing to me though, especially compared to the BRRR'ing as the work to build one ADU is probably much less (and less time) than the number of BRRR's it'd take to accomplish the same cash flow. With all those additional units you've BRRR'ed you have a lot more capex liability too. I'm looking for a safe place to park cash long term with great cash return, so I'll explore ADU's more for now.

The capital cost short and long sucks though, no argument there!

Post: ADU Friendly Cities in San Diego

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5

Hello All,

I'm looking into selling a condo and rolling the equity into a new investment SFR here in San Diego. The second phase of the plan is to build an ADU. I've reviewed the ADU rules on some of the different city's websites, now I realize how much variance there is just within the county...For example, Santee has a new owner occupancy requirement that will go into effect on any ADU's permitted after 2024 and a strict no STR policy, La Mesa on the other hand seems really ADU friendly.

Does anyone here have recommendations on which cities in SD county to avoid and which to explore for ADU's?


thanks!

@Monique P. Thank you! That's some great information!

@Bill B. - great advice. Airbnb'ing is a pivot from the original long term-lease strategy, which worked well the past few years, but new day-care costs are looming. Trying to offset the baby-overhead.

I think the extreme example of the entire community going short term could hurt value, but more options for these homeowners to make money on their best assets could be a selling point! 

Also considering fully-furnished mid-term rentals targeting travel nurses if airbnb doesn't work out. Not sure if the margins for that strategy are much better than long-term leases though.

Thanks all.

@John Underwood. Of course, google! I've been looking and articles love to quote one paper out of UPenn, it's a meta analysis of zillow and airbnb data. The headline grabbing quote being "we find that a 1% increase in Airbnb listings leads to
a 0.018% increase in rents and a 0.026% increase in house prices". That's 2016 data though...

https://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/...

I come across a lot of speculation and anecdotal arguments in a regular google search. Google scholar shows a lot of pay-for articles, and a surprising number of international case studies.


If anyone has any good domestic data you'd be a lifesaver.

Attention Data lovers! I need some help...

I'd like to convert a long-term lease condo in San Diego CA to an Airbnb. The part of the county the condo is in doesn't require permits, however, the HOA is posing a problem. Though not currently effective, the HOA is considering an amendment to its bylaws that would prohibit Airbnb's in the complex. Their opinion and primary argument against is that Airbnb's negatively impact property values.

Fortunately the HOA Board is going to meet with me and hear my petition. Moreover, it's a small complex of 12 units so I am hopeful that they can be persuaded. I need a strong pitch to win them over though!

If anyone can point me to any real data on how Airbnb's affect property values (either for my case or against) or has any advice on how to go about this conversation, then I'd be forever grateful.


please help!



Post: AC Type Impact on Rent

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5

Thanks everyone for your input! Ultimately my property manager hooked me up with his AC guy to do mini splits. We installed them in the main home and the ADU for a fraction of the cost I was originally quoted for the ADU alone.

@Dan H. lesson learned about ducting. The ADU came prefabricated with the ducting and a FAU for heat. I should've asked for a credit! Overall the prefab unit was great for me though; construction was very quick.

Post: AC Type Impact on Rent

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5

Thanks Scott, very helpful. My plan is to hold onto this long term, as such I’m not opposed to making expensive upgrades. just want to put my cash to its best use. 

Post: AC Type Impact on Rent

Michael SheaPosted
  • San Diego, CA
  • Posts 11
  • Votes 5

Hello All,

I'm finishing an ADU in San Diego, one of the last construction items is AC. The home already has ducts for its forced air heating, but no cooling yet. Cost to add AC to the ducted system is about 6k, which really has me wondering how much that's going to increase my rent.

I’d rather hold cash for the next move, but don’t want to cheap out on the otherwise premium-rental adu. Which brings me to the forum. What do you all think: should I add the AC unit or cheap out with window units? And what would the impact be on rent price and demand?


adu is about 600 sf.

thank you!


Mike