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All Forum Posts by: Michael Ashe

Michael Ashe has started 5 posts and replied 20 times.

Quote from @Cory King:
Quote from @Michael Ashe:

Back again but with a little more info. I want to get started in real. Estate investment, what's my current primary residence in Knoxville, TN. I've done the math roughly and honestly the cashflow is coming out much less than I'd hoped for by a long shot.

Based on similar homes here's where I'm at. $2,500-$2,700 in rent but have a $1,900 mortgage (including current property taxes) plus $100 for insurance, plus a 10% chance of no one renting and another 10% set aside for repairs.

After all that I'm in a range of breaking even or making $200 a month with this as a rental. My question is at what point is it not worth it to use this as a rental? Am I here already or have I made a mistake in my numbers assuming everything I layed out here is correct.


Depends on your circumstances and goals. House hacking for a bit of added cash flow without moving?

Based on that math yes, you'd clear a couple hundred dollars after all debts and expenses, not the worst spot to be if you're not necessarily needing the cashflow/trying to live off of it, but instead are focusing on playing the long game. 

Knoxville has a lot of runway for growth and by picking up 1 each year or 2 is a solid long term play. 


 I would absolutely entertain the house hacking idea if not for my wife 2 children. We don't have a space in the home that could serve as an extra space to rent out. 

I feel the same way about Knoxville, as much as I've seen it grow in the last 5-10 Years I think that building here in my home town will turn out to he a great decision.

James I appreciate this. Not only because it supports my current decision to go forward with rental but because this is kind of my vision for starting out in Real Estate. I've come to understand in the past few years that with my current skills there is somewhat of a cap on my earning potential. However I want to provide my partner and family a certain lifestyle and build for the future with real estate. 

So this path is the most realistic for me personally. Save up 5% down and rent out the old property with #s that look similar to this. Its much more achievable than 20% on an investment property. and I play the long game and rely on the equity I build versus living by the cash flow. Of course I want to earn profit month to month but long term is where my mind is at. Thanks for the input man.

Quote from @Thomas Ruf:

Lower rates will lower rents over time. People will choose to buy, if they can (Supply is still around 1/2 of what it was at it's peak and people are moving in Knoxville area at an increasing rate).

I expect rates will start falling a lot more in 2025 if the Republicans take the Senate by 5 or more seats and the House by 12 or more. However, I also don't believe there will be a lot of equity building in the next 3-7 years due to lack of supply. Meaning, it will go up some, but not at the rate it has in the past 10 years. We don't have a lot of builders here in Knoxville.

Also, many investors have been lobbying for High-Density legislation. Therefore, multi-family will take some demand from SFR. Polls have shown younger people prefer less, even if it costs more.

As municipalities expand, then contract, then expand, and so on... equity will grow at similar rates respectively.


 So in a market with lower rates we will see a dip rental cost or least reach a plateau. With that in mind, by the time I'm able to get my current home rented (1 year from now) I could very well be in a negative cash flow position on the rental. 

Again it's not a deal breaker for me that the property cash flows immediately but that's good information, that will help me keep a realistic outlook as I move forward. If I misinterpreted that let me know but if not I'll definitely take the info and let it add to my perspective.

Quote from @Thomas Ruf:

Michael,

This is a tough one. It all depends on your risk tolerances. If young and willing to take risk, renting is an option. Even if the market corrects a bit in 2024-2025, you'll probably be slightly ahead if you can get it rented at those dollars. If more on the conservative side, then I would say you need to take into consideration all your debts. A DTI (Debt-to-Income) ratio of 50% or lower, when including all expenses you pay/month, would be safe IMHO.

You're in a good market for rentals for a few years. Supply hasn't caught up to drive rents down like they will in larger cities. However, keep in mind, once they do you'll need to be prepared for the worst. So plan for the worst in a few years and hope for the best.

Good luck!

Thank you for this input! All and all I can say confidently I don't need the rental to be profitable right off the bat. That would be a great bonus and it would help me get to my repair and occupancy saving goals faster.

One thing I need to research is how lower rates impact rental rates. That's the immediate variable I see coming for the market but the rest I'm in the dark about as far as trying to predict market conditions in the coming years.

More than anything I want to get the house rented so I can get into a new place and start the process over again always saving for the next 5% down payment.
Quote from @Nick Velez:

@Michael Ashe

This is a great question and the answer really depends on your scenario. I think we can both agree that a few hundred dollars a month in cash flow is not going to drastically change your financials, but holding onto this property for 5-10 years could. I personally, would keep the property and hold onto it as long as I can. With that said, there are a few scenario's in which that may not be the best choice for you. 

If you have good amount of equity in the property, you may be better off selling and redeploying into a few additional properties. As far as your finances, if missed rent or vacancy would stretch you, it may not be in your best interest to hold onto it. 

Weigh the pros and cons and make a decision from there. The only known factor is you cant capture appreciation if you no longer own it. :)

Thanks for the perspective man and you're right that $200 isn't going to by my "why" for renting it out. What I do want is someone else paying the mortgage while the property appreciates !

Give me your thoughts on this as a general strategy. Over the next 10 years I want to purchase and hold as many good single family homes as I can. Live in them for 2 years or long enough to save up another 5% down payment and repeat. 

Obviously each deal is different and we don't know what the rate environment will be like but is that a reasonable realistic strategy?

Back again but with a little more info. I want to get started in real. Estate investment, what's my current primary residence in Knoxville, TN. I've done the math roughly and honestly the cashflow is coming out much less than I'd hoped for by a long shot.

Based on similar homes here's where I'm at. $2,500-$2,700 in rent but have a $1,900 mortgage (including current property taxes) plus $100 for insurance, plus a 10% chance of no one renting and another 10% set aside for repairs.

After all that I'm in a range of breaking even or making $200 a month with this as a rental. My question is at what point is it not worth it to use this as a rental? Am I here already or have I made a mistake in my numbers assuming everything I layed out here is correct.

Back again but with a little more info. I want to get started in real. Estate investment, what's my current primary residence in Knoxville, TN. I've done the math roughly and honestly the cashflow is coming out much less than I'd hoped for by a long shot.

Based on similar homes here's where I'm at. $2,500-$2,700 in rent but have a $1,900 mortgage (including current property taxes) plus $100 for insurance, plus a 10% chance of no one renting and another 10% set aside for repairs.

After all that I'm in a range of breaking even or making $200 a month with this as a rental. My question is at what point is it not worth it to use this as a rental? Am I here already or have I made a mistake in my numbers assuming everything I layed out here is correct.

Post: House hacking. How to calculate cash flow

Michael AshePosted
  • Posts 20
  • Votes 6
Quote from @David M.:

@Michael Ashe Okay.  But, it seems one "sticking point" is the change in property taxes.  I know that parts of the country you lose your homestead discount, change rate for non-owner occupied, or just nothing (like my market).  So, you might want to research that directly for your location.  Or, was the comment you referring specific to your location?

Better to act on correct info.


 It was more of a general example of unknowns I will encounter in transitioning my primary to a rental property. That's just one thing I was made aware of as a possible variable to take into account. 

essentially I'm looking for hidden rental costs that I'm not aware of. Things outside of how much.my mortgage is and how much I could rent it for. 

I have a lot of research to do I'll start with the things that are specific to my market so I can ask more informed questions on here.

Post: House hacking. How to calculate cash flow

Michael AshePosted
  • Posts 20
  • Votes 6
Quote from @Jay Thomas:

Check out how much you could make by looking into what others charge in your area and think about throwing in bonuses for folks who stick around longer or if you offer some cool extras. Then, figure out what it's gonna cost you – your mortgage, any possible property tax bumps, pricier landlord insurance, plus regular upkeep, fixes, and fees if you've got someone managing things. Toss in some extra cash for those times when no one's renting. Now, subtract all that from what you're bringing in. For instance, if you're thinking $2,000 in rent but have a $1,500 mortgage, $200 extra in property taxes, and $100 for insurance, plus a 5% chance of no one renting and another 10% set aside for fixes, your estimated cash flow might end up at -$200.


 This is super helpful man. In my scenario my current mortgage is $1800. Comparable properties are renting for $2500-$2700. 

On the surface it looks like a solid rental but the things you mentioned give me cause for pause. If I apply that exact strategy my house would only cash flow $25-$225 a month. Thats the kind of info i need man thank you

Post: House hacking. How to calculate cash flow

Michael AshePosted
  • Posts 20
  • Votes 6
Quote from @David Liu:

Hi Michael, 

This is assuming that you are staying in your primary home and house hacking. I was a little confused on the way you worded your question because it seemed like you were asking how to calculate cashflow if you didn't live in your home and fully rented out your house. 

Cashflow=Rental income- expenses

Rental income: how many rooms will you be renting out? How much can you get for it? Check Facebook Marketplace or craigslist (rooms for rent). 

Expenses: 

1. Mortgage

2. Property Taxes (never heard of property taxes increasing if you convert a house into a house hack. Very weird... property taxes typically increase when there is a tax reassessment (renovations done, ADU was added, etc...) So maybe that's what people meant when they told you your property tax may go up (i.e. adding an ADU to rent out). But if you keep your house as is, then there shouldn't been a property tax hike.

3. lawn care, utilities, parking spot 

4. saving up for capex expenses (i.e. 5-8% of rental income depending on the condition of your home)

5. Repairs & Maintenance (5-8% of rental income)

Take a look at the BP rental calculator to see all the potential expenses you may have while house hacking. 

Note: if the cashflow comes out negative, you technically aren't "losing", because your tenant is at least partially covering your biggest monthly expense which is housing... 

Man I'm sorry I used the wrong verbiage on this post I see that now I apologize. I had 2 posts I was working on and I crossed them up on accident.

What I want to do isn't a house hack it's just converting my primary into a Long Tern Rental and getting a 5% down conventional loan to buy a new primary. My plan is to rinse and repeat this model to build up more properties and let renters pay the bulk of the mortgage for me. This was where the topic of higher property taxes came from. Someone on the forum told me when I convert a property front primary to a rental it increases the property tax. Sorry for the confusion I goofed on the question.