All Forum Posts by: Sam Leon

I have a property that I have completely gutted and have been rehabbing. Progress is slow, because amongst all my properties it's the furthest away and between a full time job and landlording, I can only work on this property on weekends.

I have completed re-framing, re-plumbing of drains and supply lines and new electrical rough ins, but property has no finished walls, ceilings, or flooring. The next stage would be to install sheetrock on walls and ceiling, waterproof bathroom walls and install tiles, finished flooring, new kitchen cabinets and appliance, install bathroom fixtures.

The problem is time. I have other priorities that require me to put this rehabbing on the back burner, I am also at a good milestone in the process. So I am considering two options:

(1) HIre a contractor to hand off to finish the project.

(2) Sell it as-is.

If I go with option #2, obviously it cannot be a normal sale as the property is not habitable in it's current state, so cannot be mortgaged nor insured. What are the best ways to find buyers that will be a good fit? I don't think finding an agent to advertise it as a "handyman special" on MLS will be fruitful.

RE is nothing but math, sell it as is to an investor cash, if it makes sense, OR fix and sell, KEEP IT SIMPLE. Not really sure what you are wanting us to tell you . You only have two options

Good luck

Thank you. Yeah just sort of thinking out loud at this point. I guess I am asking if I need to sell it to a cash buyer, what is the best way to do it. I don't think listing with an agent will work since I am not looking to sell to the general public, I do get these yellow post cards and letters from "CASH FOR YOUR HOUSE NOW" but I believe those are not investors buyers but more bird-dogs looking to get it on a contract to reassign at closing. Looking for guidance on how/where best to find qualified cash end buyers.

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Miami, Florida

Quote from @Ray Hage:

@Sam Leon I would aim to finish it up with some handymen or a contractor. Doing all the work yourself doesn't make sense if you have a full time and other priorities. Get some estimates on what it would cost to finish up and of course, figure out how much the ARV will be to see if it is worth what the contractors are charging. I don't think it is worth trying to sell half done as you will have a limited pool of buyerI am looking at both options. The problem with finding contractors to finish is finding a good and reliable one, especially in south Florida I have not been able to find anyone over the years. I was able to find a few good subs like electrical, landscaping, roofing, AC tech, foundation, yet can't find a good general contractor. Tried a few but they are far from reliable...in a sense that if I am not on site things go sideways, or even no activity and completely missing for days. Even simple stuff like locking the door at the end of the day or turn water off at the main shutoff were a challenge. It got to a point I needed to show myself to button up at the end of each day to make progress.

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Miami, Florida

The problem is time. I have other priorities that require me to put this rehabbing on the back burner, I am also at a good milestone in the process. So I am considering two options:

(1) HIre a contractor to hand off to finish the project.

(2) Sell it as-is.

1 Vote

Miami, Florida

Quote from @Colleen F.:

@Sam Leon theoretically it could be considered a family status to be single people but so many towns have passed unrelated person ordinances I wouldn't worry about it. No judge is going to support them. Fair housing doesn't protect single people. I have restricted the number of cars to deal with this for one house since I got so many roommate situations. You can also look at residential history together.

Yes I also have a restriction on vehicles basically each bedroom gets 1 car space allocation. So a 2BR unit has two parking spaces, a studio or 1BR gets only 1 space. That in turn helped solves a few other issues as well.

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Quote from @Scott Trench:

Interesting - there's the law, and there's "best practice" - I don't think there is a law saying that you can or can't deny people based on whether they previously know one another. Maybe a lawyer can answer that question, and it might be state specific.

But, best practice is to simply always accept the first qualified applicant. Set a high bar and rent to the first person to clear it, and you avoid most of your problems with screening.

I literally live next door in a house-hack to five unrelated individuals who are on a single lease. They are some of my best tenants, friendly, take great care of the place, and reach out when there is a legitimate problem I want to know about.

Regardless, if you proceed with multiple tenants, make sure that they know, before, during, and after lease signing, that they are jointly and severally liable for the rent and terms of the lease. That means if one party flakes out on the other, the remaining party is still responsible for 100% of the rent and/or damages. This is true regardless of their relationship status prior to entering into the lease.

I do all that, in addition to income requirements, employment verification, tenancy history verification and credit/criminal background checks, I also put weight on some components that are more subjective in nature. I prefer tenants who follow instructions, have common sense, punctual and friendly. I don't become friends with them, but I would select a good tenant over a bad tenant even if the bad tenant pays a higher rent. This is one of the reasons I reward good tenants with a smaller increase when I renew a lease. I have a pretty air tight lease but there is only so much a lease can do...one can put down on the lease don't put the following five thousand things into the disposer and the following three thousand things into the toilet, but no one reads it and having someone with common sense is important.

My personal experiences with roommates who don't know each other have been not so pleasant. I would say it's worse then student rentals. Not sure where they found each other, may be Facebook or other social media? Anyone know? Where you can post to see who else may be interested in renting a house together?

I don't mind renting to roommates, I don't care if they are related or not, married or not, friends, same sex couples, different sex couples, non-binary couples...but if they don't even know each other, then suddenly thrown together under the same roof will present challenges, and some of those challenges take up my time.

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Quote from @Will Gaston:

@Sam Leon I'm not sure if this 100% answers your question, but many cities (especially near colleges) have an ordinance limiting the maximum number of unrelated persons.

In Columbia, South Carolina that number is 3. The current Governor for the state went to the state Supreme Court over this. And lost.

https://stromlaw.com/s-c-supreme-court-upholds-ordinance-all...

So, in Columbia, even if you wanted to rent to 4 roommates, it would not be allowed.

Good to know. I have heard some place has a limit based on a max occupant per bedroom.

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Quote from @Janice R.:

This is a interesting question! From my research, the FHA law on familial status protects adults living with children under 18 years of age only - see

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/whos-protected-again...

Adult roommates are not a protected class as "familial status". However, all the other protected classes (race, religion, etc.) would apply to each prospective tenant individually.

My understanding the "familial status" is the family status of the applicant or tenant. I have always operated on the understanding that this refers to equal treatment of those who are married, divorced, widowed, single, with children, pregnant.

So if you selected an applicant who is single over one who is divorced, it's a violation.
If you charged a higher rent for a divorced applicant with 2 children vs a single no children, it's a violation.
If you selected a married couple over an unmarried couple, it's a violation.

Obviously, most of the time, the decision landlords make are not based on a single reason, often times it's a combination of factors, once you have gone through the process of background checks, employment verification, tenancy history verification, there is still a subjective element on how your interactions with the applicant went...I have personally selected one tenant over another because one followed instructions, and one did not (incomplete application, showed up late during a showing, sent back an application with a camera taken photo of the form in dim light and out of focus etc...), and I have even selected one over anther because one has tattoos every inch of his body, and no I didn't tell the applicant he was turned away for excessive body markings and piercings.

Getting back to familial status, if it is a violation to select a married couple over an unmarried couple, and if you tuck "roommates" under the umbrella of unmarried couples, then it may apply, perhaps loosely? I don't know, hence the question. In my case, I just prefer not to rent to roommates who are basically strangers to each other, and yes, I cannot always tell easily the relationship between the applicants. If two people show up and attend a showing, it's not like I can openly ask whether they are related by blood, marriage, couples living together, friends or otherwise.

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Quote from @Theresa Harris:

I can't see how they would be a protected class. You don't have to tell people why you didn't pick them. You can evaluate them the same as anyone else and simply pick someone who you think will be a better long term tenant.

While it's true that I do not have to disclose my reasoning to choosing applicant A over applicant B, I still want to make sure I can defend my decision if it comes to that. If I have a married couple vs two roommates who do not know each other, and if qualifications like employment/income/credit/background/rental history are about the same, and it boils down to the married couple feels like a more stable and hassle free tenants and the roommate strangers not so much...

and I wonder how close to the line of familial status that is, or not at all.

kind of like the landlord in Los Angeles who decided not to rent to non-English speaking applicants, but got into trouble because a judge ruled that discrimination of applicants who speaks other languages is the same as discrimination based on national origin.

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I have a question regarding the Fair Housing Act's Familial Status.

The intent is to prevent anyone from refusing to rent to or give preferences to people based on their family status...single vs married, with or without children etc...

Familial status covers:

families with children under the age of 18,
pregnant persons, and
any person in the process of securing legal custody of a minor child (including adoptive or foster parents).
persons with written permission of the parent or legal guardian

Where do roommates factor into all these?

Example, you are renting a two or three bedroom property. Tenants can be married with or without children, unmarried couples, or friends, I don't have any preferences, nor should I.

However, I am seeing more and more people who want to rent together but they do not know each other. In other words, they met through social media, may be Jill wants to rent a 3 bedroom house and posted that on Facebook, and Laura and Julian responded. So Jill contacted me and says she and two friends want to rent my house and set up a viewing. At the viewing they call came in different cars, I can tell they do not know each other because they greeted each other with "you must be Laura" and "hi I am Julian". So basically you are renting to three strangers who have never met each other.

This creates a few problems. I went through this twice...because they do not know each other, they do not trust each other, so the first thing they want are interior doors with dead bolts. Next is instead of one point of contact for "rent" and maintenance, they soon all want to be individually notified for everything, or they no longer want to be collectively responsible for damages and fees, even though my leases specifically stated I don't care who breaks a window, everyone on the lease is responsible. Of course then one person wants to leave before the lease ends but the other two want to stay, which again, not my problem because the three collectively signed a lease.

Bottom line is renting to roommates who are complete strangers to each other, is exactly like student rentals.

Is it legal to avoid such arrangements? Is it a violation of FHA? I am not even sure I can easily tell if they make an effort to hide this from me.

I guess I am just ranting.

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who is the property manager?

who's making repairs when things break? Do you have a property manager doing this or are you sending over tradesmen you trust to the property to investigate and resolve?

I visit my property monthly when I do preventative manintenance - test smoke alarms, test GFCI receptacles, flush WH T&P valves, change AC filters and flush condensate drains, feel the bottom of sink drains, blow leaves off the roof etc etc etc...

For a while I did the "call me when you need me" thing, until one day a tenant moved out after 1 year, and I went to the AC closet, and I saw 11 filters untouched. The original filter I put in 12 months ago has disintegrated. I showed the tenant on checking in and he said sure, I'll change this every month, it's easy!

1 Vote

All Forum Posts by: Sam Leon

Sam Leon has started 324 posts and replied 1431 times.

Post: Considering selling a property I have been rehabbing

Post: Considering selling a property I have been rehabbing

Post: Considering selling a property I have been rehabbing

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Are "roommates" a protected class?

Post: Should I be physically visiting my LTR properties once a year?