All Forum Posts by: Tim Silvers

One thing on all the posts on note buying that I've gleaned is that there's nothing specific on the exact procedures of HOW TO GET THROUGH TO THE DEPT. OR PERSON THAT HANDLES SELLING NOTES. If there is any catch to note buying this seems to be it!

I have called a dozen lenders and get nowhere thus far. I have called all the numbers listed for these institutions. Most of these lenders are the larger ones like GMAC, Citi, Wells Fargo.

I ask for the so-called "secondary marketing dept". and/or "asset management dept." and I invariably wind up with a reply of "we don't have any such dept. It is not on our list" or, "we will have to take your name and no. and a supervisor will research your request and call you back" which they never do, or even "we don't sell our notes" which is not true because I read about their notes being for sale.

I have read that a strategy is to go through the short sale/loss mit dept. and then leverage into my pitch on buying the note, but I've already called loss mit and it's like speaking a foreign language. They don't know what I'm talking about.

I read and hear about those of you who have made headway. Please give me more insight, some backdoor tricks or something, otherwise it just seems it's an another elusive unicor that's all theory, but doesn't exist!

:cry:

This entire topic has been extensively covered in many previous threads. One in particular was started immediately following the now 4-month-old FHLMC bulletin on which I had posted some of my fears, not dissimilar from Eric's.

here's the link: http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/103/topics/48932-freddie-fraud-?page=1

Since then, I have shared such fears with many and get the same answer which is basically that: "as long as the contract discloses the intent to resell for a profit, there is no fraud."

Read the entire link. There's a lot more banter since everyone was hot on the topic.

I always say,

CASH is KING...

as long as it's someone else's!

Whatever it takes, just do as many deals as you can with no cash of your own.

Anyone care to share their marketing tips (i.e. marketing mostly to realtors, direct sellers, or both, and using what systems)?

Also - what made you choose SS's over trustee sales and REOs?

We're using the local NODs for most of our leads and need what is considered the more effective direct mail solicitations to try and convert them to short sales since these leads get bombarded by everyone and their brother.

Anyone have or can point me to some examples of letters, postcards, etc. that have worked?

Thanks, Tom, those were the responses I was looking for.

True, if you find one that doesn't have their head up their @$$ and doesn't read negative press like this:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1691636/is-short-sale-flipping-criminal-activity-

"In addition to banks losing money, this practice damages the unsuspecting homeowner who is selling the home in the short sale because they then face the possibility of a higher deficiency judgment if the lender seeks to recover the unpaid balance, or if there is forgiveness of debt, a higher income tax bill (unless the homeowner is exempt under various tax forgiveness plans of the IRS).

Borrowers are "on the hook for larger deficiencies," Ann Fulmer, vice president of Interthinx said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. "And there are indications that banks are increasingly turning to collection agencies and to civil lawsuits (to collect these unpaid balances)." "

This is what I'm talking about guys! The deficiency.

I was recently told by a realtor that she could not refer deals to me because the seller felt that my lower offer would result in a higher deficiency and the resulting proportionate increase on a promissory note to the seller. I'm not concerned with respect to a deficiency resulting in a 1099-C, as a seller is protected against either via the Mortgage Debt Relief Act (owner-occ) or via insolvency (non-owner occ), although educating and convincing a misinformed lay person or realtor can be quite a challenge on the tax forgiveness issue as well.

Another frequent objection from sellers and agents alike is that because my offer is so low, it will create an unecessary delay when they're of the belief the bank will most likely deny a "lowball" investor offer in the end - and all those weeks or months in which an offer at or close to market value could've been accepted were forfeited in vain.

What are some of the techniques for overcoming these objections that actually have worked in the real world and not just theory?

Following are 2 Bryan Ellis "warning" links regarding the latest "policy" statement issued from FHLMC (Freddie Mac) on short sale flip fraud.

http://www.reiwebinar.com/short-sale-fraud/go/

http://realestate.bryanellis.com/1939/short-sale-flip-fraud-emergency-webinars-and-good-ole-freddie-mac/#08U9ZSwria9R

My question is this: Even though one can infer from their opinion that downright non-disclosure of the exact specifics of the front-end "load" to the (A) seller or the lender constitutes fraud, it still leaves room open to multiple levels of interpretation - both good and bad. As such, I can see the attorneys having a field day with this. That being said, what guarantee does anyone who engaged in past flips or is engaging in future flip transactions have from being exempt from investigation and the resulting civil and criminal sanctions? There is none.

My gut feeling is that I believe most attorneys will take a overly cautious approach and come to the conclusion in advising that until this policy becomes law with supposedly black and white descriptions, one must err on the side of caution and avoid future short sale flip transactions. Even so, clear-cut law rarely exists, especially in these gray areas, as there will still be room for interpretation. It can always be argued that the disclosure you thought you had covered just wasn't good enough, the print wasn't big enough, wasn't additionally disclosed by verbal statements made to the bank or the seller, the seller was elderly and didn't really understand, etc.

I think the pitfall isn't in the ability to debate the policy's contradictory main jist in light of other agencies' pro-flip actions. It's the fact that government agencies are typical in purposefully leaving their guidelines open to interpretation even when it becomes law, so such agency can "legislate enforcement and subsequent punishment from the bench", a very precarious position indeed.

I've seen it happen in the securities industry too many times. You can hire the best legal teams in the world to try and determine compliance well in advance of any transaction. And even when there's zero statutes regarding specifics as to a transaction, regulators will refuse rendering a legal opinion and invariably wait until there's a complaint first. By the time you find out the transaction was illegal, it's too late, you're sanctioned and having lunch with Madoff. It's a minefield and the rotten Draconian system that never resolves.

A former fiend of mine once said, stay away from the gray.

I am anxious to hear the experts weigh in on this and as to what innovative solutions might resolve this issue, if possible!

JCC, all due respect, regarding the HML, I don't know any conventional HMLs that will a) provide financing without taking a lien against the property and b) loan in excess of 65% LTV.

Please clarify this.

Also - even over-disclosing your purchase and subsequent sale details to all parties involved I fear will STILL not guarantee exemption from non-compliance and possible civil or criminal sanctions given the wide latitude on interpretation of what constitutes a badge of fraud that Freddie's opinion has over ours. Unfortunately, the federal government rarely loses, even when they are dead wrong. They have deeper pockets than all the investors and their attorneys put together. Hate to be negative, but it's the truth - at least up to now.