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All Forum Posts by: Mary Browder

Mary Browder has started 2 posts and replied 17 times.

Hey guys,

The old method I've always used for posting to the BP blog (not the member blogs) is no longer working. Since the link has changed and there's not a redirect, I'm no longer sure how to submit without the Wordpress Dashboard. Does anyone have the new link or a better path to submission? Admittedly this is my own fault for relying on the link for so long! Thanks for any help, because I'd like to post some fresh content about asset protection, legalese translation for REIs, lawsuit issues, and a bit about property management. I've written on BP for quite a while, so this one's kind of out of left field.

Post: I've inherited money... what's the best way to start!?

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

My boss Scott raises some wonderful points. I'd like to say I agreee with them, but here's what I'd sprinkle on top: 
1. Educate, educate, and self-educate some more. Crack a good old fashioned book called The Contrarion's Playbook for some simple breakdowns of time-honored REI strategies. It's a GREAT high-level overview, and may actually be a reminder of some stuff you've learned already. Although I'm so nuts I got a Rhetoric degree, the thing I love about this book is you hardly need an 8th grade education to understand its language and points. With complex ideas, I hate when people muddy up the basics with flowery words. And I'm a legal writer. Unnecessary words pay my bills. Or they would if I worked anywhere else. Fortunately, my boss is a smart dude who hires smart people and trusts our expertise. For that reason, he digs my plain English explanations of legal concepts, because it easier for investors to understand them. Asset protection can be heady stuff that even experienced REIs swerve because it's full of Legalese. And sure, I could easily make it headier if I felt like it, but since it's too heady to begin with? It's better to break it down, Barney-style if necessary. Simple language makes tough concepts easy to grasp, while Legalese makes easy concepts HARD. The number one reason folks fail to protect assets or take other legal precautions is because they just don't get why they need to. Simplifying language around law, REI, and other tough stuff makes the business of learning easier. When you aren't decoding word-by-word, you'd be surprised how much strategy you can learn in a few hours. This book is also one of my faves because there are many ways to get it for free: online, by borrowing from the library or a friend, or simply sacrifcing under $10 for your own electronic or print copy. Heck, you could get both for that price--one for commuting, one for reading at home. 

Even if it's the only book you ever read, fine. Maybe articles and podcasts are more your thing. You're in a great place for both, free to you and penned by field experts. Even making your way 

2. Lose other people's money. While you are out there mixing it up, meeting other investors, and asking questions, don't just pay attention to the win stories. Pay extra special attention to anyone who tells you about how they LOST big. These are what we in the legal field know as "honest people" and frankly, investors are great at many things. Including embellishing. Gut honesty isn't always our forte, and who doesn't love to lead with their successes? That's not even dishonest, it's just human nature.

So anyone offering up the vulnerable stuff, like how they've lost, who they should have listened to, or what they should have done better (Spoiler Alert: Most people will say 'due diligence,' just usually in more words)? They're giving you REAL freebies. Take them. Lose their money and pay attention so you won't repeat their errors. There are plenty of success stories here on BP and online you can learn the details of. Learn about the ways to avoid losing. Bad deals and lawsuits, to borrow another line from Scott Smith, are the two biggest ways REIS lose. Asset protection knocks out lawsuits, but bad deals are inevitable if you invest long enough. What's not is losing everything because of one, or even losing a penny more than you "have" to. The dirty laundry those other investors will freely share can save you hypothetical millions before you've even gone in on your first property. The matter of "how" will become clear as you learn more. The best "how" for you is something only education, time, and just plain doing it will teach you. Hope that helps!

Post: Does anyone have a list number or names of investor-friendly atto

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

Paging @Scott Smith. Not in your area, but works exclusively with investors. Attorneys who also invest do tend to bring both of those experiences/worldviews to their work. Just a thought. 

Post: Recommendations for a lawyer to set up our business structure

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

@James Masotti From a defense perspective, lack of case law isn't necessarily a bad thing. There's lots of case law on Traditional LLCs being pierced. You'll see less on the DST and Series LLC simply because there are fewer lawsuits involving these structures to begin with. They have a strong deterrent effect partially because there aren't many good legal methods that work reliably enough for attorneys to come after assets secured in these structures. The firm I work at has never actually been put in the position of having to uphold the DST's validity, as it is pretty well-established. The Series LLC is newer, but based on much of the same legal theory and precedent. There isn't *no* case law, just less than the Traditional LLC--simply because Traditional LLCs exist in all 50 states and there are established vulnerabilities to these entities. Ordinarily, the Series LLC does its job by keeping the investor out of court altogether. From an asset protection standpoint, that's a good thing.

Also, a Series LLC does not NECESSARILY mean you have to use separate bank accounts. You and your attorney can set it up to run through a single business account. This is a pretty common misconception. Just because you have multiple asset holding companies (either with the Series LLC or DST) doesn't mean you need a bank account for each. Ideally, your asset holding companies are NOT doing any business with the public. They literally just hold assets.

Some investors use a shell company (Traditional LLC) for collecting rental payments and doing all other public business. Others collect these payments personally. Are there circumstances where some investors might choose to use separate bank accounts and credit cards for each Series? Yes, but this isn't the norm. Assuming you follow your attorney and CPA's instructions around how money flows into or out of the structure, it can easily be executed with only a single bank account and card in the name of the parent company.

And I'm not an attorney, just a legal writer. But I do work with these structures. @Scott Smith, please correct me if there's anything I missed in that quick analysis. 

Post: Recommendations for a lawyer to set up our business structure

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

Chat with @Scott Smith.

Asset protection is a pretty small niche. Florida doesn't offer the best in-state solutions. A good RE attorney will likely recommend something like a Texas or Delaware Series LLC, particularly if you grow your real estate business beyond a single investment.

Why I recommend Scott is he's an investor as well as an attorney. Personally, I like when someone's professional experience is informed or backed by investing experience. I'm having Scott glance over my first deal, as well as a CPA who is an investor as well.

Post: Been sued? Please share.

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

How do you figure? I'm curious about your line of reasoning. Great point about wrong insurer--sorry, I didn't see your earlier post so I just now caught up.

One could always buy in their own name and transfer to something like a Land Trust for additional asset protection. But I'd like to check with my boss @Scott Smith--is Michael correct that purchasing the property as an LLC actually exposed him to greater liabilities? I've never seen case law to this effect. When in doubt, Michael, I ask an expert. Thanks for sharing your perspective and reminding me to read back through your post. Your knowledge of insurance clearly exceeds my own--admittedly not my area of expertise. I'm a big believer we should all have insurance, but just that it usually isn't enough for investors with multiple properties on its own. Company structures set up AHEAD of time generally do prevent suits, but of course, asset protection isn't one-size-fits-all. Only a qualified AP attorney can tell a given investor what set-up is best for them (assuming said attorney is familiar with the investor's situation, goals, and plans). Thanks for shedding some light on the subject!

Post: Seeking Sober House Owners/Managers (Particularly in TX)

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

I'm considering investing in a sober home. I've got some questions fellow Austinites/Texans/Recovery Home investors could be really useful in figuring out. I have a sense of what I'm looking at re:managment issues and some industry vets who will be helpful there. But not so many connections who own and take active management roles in these places. Here are the questions:
1. Structure you used for your sober home? 

2. Did you use grant funding? Or rental assistance from the city/state of any kind for clients?

3. Demand is outrageous. This would be an evidence-based spot. Clients can follow any program they like, but the area I'm looking at is SUPER 12-step dominated. This is the opposite. Clients who want to work 12-step programs may, but aren't required to.

4. Tips on partnering with local organizations and sourcing clients in an ethical way.

5. Why do so many sober house owners LEASE these places? Is this just because they don't have capital? That's not the situation I'm in. My partner and I are looking to just pay the damn mortgage on a multi-family unit that would be badass to own as a conventional rental even if it weren't going to become a sober house.

6. Neighbor management. Looking at non-HOA areas, but if neighbors aren't fans--how did you handle it?

7. Narcan will be on site, but I'm also trying to think of any unexpected **** to expect.

8. It's my understanding a sober house is totally unregulated in the Lone Star State. Is this completely accurate? This kind of goes back to my question about grant eligibility.

There's so much more, but those are some starting points that I'd be grateful if anyone could speak to. I did read @Dave Van Horn's helpful article, and plan to listen to his episode of the BP podcast too.

Post: Been sued? Please share.

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

@Jeff Greenberg Ideally, asset protection comes into play well ahead of the lawsuit even being filed. I don't know that there's any 100% guaranteed method for everyone or the details of your ownership, so I'm just throwing that out there as a caveat to some thoughts.

If this property had been structured inside of a Series LLC (as a child series) or inside of a land trust, or a Series LLC/Land Trust combo, the plaintiff would have had a harder time initiating the suit at all. Most attorneys don't WANT to take cases that take on SLLC structures. Now I don't know that your deal structure would have allowed for that, so please understand this isn't a criticism of what you've done so much as a thought experiment/post-mortem on how asset protection could prevent someone else from falling into a similar situation. If you do end up in court over real estate, it's a pretty common argument that when you buy the property you buy the liability. That's why the contingency solution you mentioned is so important. Obviously it's BS that you could have predicted this particular situation, but it's a liability inherent to owning a complex that, well, stuff pops off.

Insurance definitely wouldn't have made a difference, even if you'd had the mightiest policy in the world. The difference an SLLC/Anonymous Trust structure *could have* made is just making the initial suit more of a pain. I don't know how many properties you have inside of that LLC that has been named in the suit, but if it's just the one--good. But for investors pooling multiple properties inside of a single traditional LLC are doing so at great personal risk. A suit like yours would then place ALL of those properties on the line in the event of a judgment. A Series LLC, by contrast, would limit the judgment an opposing attorney could possibly collect to the property within that series (just the one property associated with the suit), rather than everything. It sounds like your lawyer's a smart one who made sure you aren't personally liable--any properly structured LLC can take care of that. But by limiting the amount possible to "win" in judgment, motivation to sue is sucked away. This brings us full circle back to the original point.

If a lawyer is checking you out, with a pissed off client in their office ready to sue, the first step is to research what assets are associated with your name. In this case, they saw the LLC that owns your property. For most attorneys to even sue a Traditional LLC, they need strong motivation, usually in the form of a client with cash to throw into it or a juicy asset to collect in judgment. Ideal asset protection strategies make you a bigger pain in the *** to sue in the first place, and limit what they can get on their (almost always hypothetical/potential) "payday." The Series LLC/Anonymous Trust structure can make an investor a more difficult target all around, and usually will stop the lawsuit before it even starts. It is true that in asset protection, the law absolutely favors the proactive. 

Again, I'm not saying that this would definitely have made a difference or even been the best option in your case. I don't know the details of your deal structure, purchase, partner agreements, property, etc., and am obviously not your lawyer. But all of us who own property can be held responsible for liabilities inherent to the property, whether that's grandma crashing through the staircase of a recent remodel or nutjobs showing up and causing drama at apartment complexes. In theory, ANY LLC structure *should* take care of this where there is no intentional fraud/outright negligence. Obviously neither is the case here. All that said, I'm truly sorry you're in this situation. It's so absurd that if your stuff weren't on the line, it would almost be funny. Here's hoping you've got an absolutely zero BS judge who understands liability can't be incurred by your failure to be psychic or Superman. It sounds like your attorney is on the ball--I'd be using the same argument to distance your LLC from the liability. No liability, no case. Then it's your call on whether to contersue, and hell, I would! (That's my opinion as a human, not a legal professional. I'd be personally pissed off at someone wasting mine and my partner's time, money, and energy, and want them to pay the bill.) Frankly, the "likelihood of an occurrence" of this is remote, even WITH a previous but totally unrelated incident. I mean, did you even own the property when the seven-years-prior incident occurred? 

Thanks for your thoughtful comments and genuinely entertaining write-up of what must be a terribly frustrating situation! LMAO @ your speculation about the medical costs. Sounds like the ER took this about as seriously as they would a nasty case of itchy feet. Here's hoping you don't have to pay for the $800 Ibuprofen or anything else!


Edit: It's entirely possible that you have a really stupid opposing attorney that took this case on a "long shot," just based on the value of the asset alone, and will give up pretty quickly. It doesn't sound like a situation where the plaintiff has a lot of cash. Hell, if they did they probably wouldn't be suing over an ER bill! Here's hoping the gods of law and reason smile upon you.

Post: Been sued? Please share.

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

@Jeff Greenberg

 I'm sorry you had to learn the hard way about insurance being useless for asset protection. I feel like I say some version of the sentence "Insurance is not a substitute for asset protection" about eight times daily. I'm also sorry you're in a litigation nightmare and hope you can get set up with some stronger asset protection to prevent future ones. Sounds like you've got some serious drama on your hands!

I hope you're lawyer is on top of this. Your lesson learned is dead on as well. For anyone else horrified by Jeff's story, here's some info on how to use contingency clauses to CYA and get better deals. It must SUCK to realize that a single clause could have prevented this...storm of feces. Hope you are successful in countersuit, if that's what it comes to. Have you considered having your attorney take a look at your rental agreements for your properties in light of this incident? He/she may be able to see some other opportunities to anticipate completely insane future occurances.

Post: Who owns a Sober Living Home?

Mary BrowderPosted
  • Specialist
  • Austin, TX
  • Posts 18
  • Votes 6

Thank you, David! I'm looking into creating a secular sober living home here in Austin and this looks like great info to have. Sorry to revive a month-old thread.