All Forum Posts by: Mark Miller

@Mark Miller Your easiest solution is just get a simple application with key information and copies of drivers license etc. from the tenant. Many PMs have this policy and while during termination it seems just plain wrong, they are in the drivers seat. If you are worried about the tenants response tell them the PM was not able to provide you this information and don't go into why. Write a nice letter explaining that you have terminated your relationship with this PM and all further communication is through you....

Nothing to be gained by fighting with the PM.

Thank you for the suggestion, Colleen! This was my backup plan as well but after the conversation with the PM, I was a little unsure of what I could legally ask the tenant to provide. Is there any other information you would suggest requesting other than name (we already have this information along with email ID and phone number for primary applicant), date of birth, and a copy of a government issued ID?

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @Julie Hartman:

Quote from @Mark Miller:

Quote from @Julie Hartman:

@Mark Miller I think in your case, you would get a release form for everyone to sign (including the tenants) that explains the transfer of documents, deposit, lease, application, etc. This way your PM is protected and the tenants understand thier informamtion/funds/documents are being transfered to a "new" property manager, so to speak. I don't know about in TX, but here in CO, we are required by law to notify a tenant when thier deposit is "moving" or changing hands. It makes sense because they are mailing rent to a new location and contacting someone else for repairs, etc. I would think the same applies there. You can get an attorney to write something very simple for everyone to sign and it wouldn't cost much.

@Julie Hartman The PM already sent an email to the tenants copying me to notify them that the owner will be managing the property and that the security deposit will be transferred to me. They also notified the tenants to send the rent payments to me and I sent the tenants a welcome email as well. The PM does not seem to be willing to negotiate on the terms and has said that they will not provide any information about the tenants other than the basic information (I have asked them to clarify what this includes and am awaiting a response) as we do not hold a license to that information.

I understand what everyone is saying with regard to private information and I would tend to agree, in most cases. However, if the PM fulfilled their regulatory/legal obligation to transfer documents to you, they should have included a copy of the application as well. We've done so and get a release form signed in the process. In the event you need to send something to collections, you may need the ssn's of the tenants. I would contact the managing broker for the PM agency and have a polite but frank discussion and see if you can compel them to send you a copy. Failing that, talk with your attorney and find out your rights in this situation, just as @JD Martin suggested.

Thank you for all the suggestions, Julie!

1 Vote

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @JD Martin:

I would be curious to see the law (in any state) that says that a property manager, who is an agent of the owner (i.e. an employee, though not in the W2 fashion), is entitled or required to maintain information about the tenant proprietary from the owner of the property. I doubt such a law exists because it would be ridiculous and nonsensical. Imagine an employee of any company that, acting as an agent of the company, got to keep the information about the clients when S/he quit or was fired? You can't imagine it because it doesn't exist unless the employer/employee agreed to such a stipulation. Now, perhaps in the PM agreement the property owner & the property manager have an agreement that the PM is going to own all information collected about the tenant - I would never sign such an agreement, but I digress - well, in that case the PM has the right based on their contract with the property owner to withhold that information. Absent that, however, I would compel the PM to release that information to me upon termination of their contract, via court if I had to, because I (as the owner, and now self property manager) have a compelling reason for wanting that information and a right to request that information.

@JD Martin This is exactly what we were thinking about as well. The PM said that they were advised by their broker that they should not provide any information other than basic information about the tenants as that information belongs solely to them and to their broker and we do not hold a license nor a broker to hold that information for us.

They pointed out a line in the PMA contract that entitles them to hold this information and not release it to us: "Manager retains the rights following termination to all owner and tenant collection accounts". Our understanding of collection accounts was what was stated in the link below so we did not question it at the time of signing the agreement. Were we incorrect in assuming that this is what they meant by collection accounts?

https://www.equifax.com/person...

What is a collection account?
If you fall behind on payments, the lender or creditor may transfer your account to a collection agency or sell it to a debt buyer. This generally occurs a few months after you become delinquent, or the date you begin missing payments or not paying the full minimum payment.

1 Vote

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @David Lee Hall, III:

So I just fired my PM last year, so went through this with a few tenants:

- Tenant contact information - 6) Do I need each occupant's contact information or does the primary applicant's phone number and email address suffice?

Every person aged 18 or older should have their contact information and government issued ID collected.

- Proof of tenant’s renters’ insurance coverage

Yes. Make sure it is current.

- (PMC said they cannot provide the tenant application as mentioned above) Copies of the tenant’s application, lease, all signed addendums, and any renewals.

You should have a copy of the lease from when they moved in an signed it (at least I already did). I didn't care though since I was going to be self managing. I had them complete a new lease with me and all of the associated intake documents just as if it was a brand new relationship.

Property inspection reports along with corresponding photos

I did a new one in conjunction with the new lease

Maintenance records for the last 6 to 12 months

You should already have this. At least my PM, while authorized for any repair under $250 would always send me said repairs for accounting purposes.

Tenant financial ledgers and financial reports
Owner financial ledgers and financial reports

Again, my PM had provided these over time and I could pull it whenever I needed from my portal. There wasn't a need to request it. It sounds like you did not have an owner portal for your PM company. This could mean that they do not have the basics such as this covered and you may be starting from scratch.

HOA forms and agreements

As the owner I would have expected you to sign any HOA documents not the PM.

Copies of all property keys or door codes

I would recommend changing the locks just as you would with a new tenant coming in. You don't know if the PM had their own copies of keys would could be a liability.

Thank you so much David! This is very helpful. I have the monthly owner statements from the portal but I was hoping for a single statement just for convenience. Also, according to the contract, they may hold the last month's rent and said they will not send it until 14 days after lease termination so I will not have the last month's statement if I lose access to the owner portal after termination. I have never had access to tenant ledgers but not sure if I will need that when managing a single property.

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @Julie Hartman:

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Also, if the contract does not state anything about the time by when it will be sent to me, is there a certain number of days after PMA termination by when they will legally need to send me all of these items? Or what is a reasonable amount of time?

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Hello all,

This is a follow up post to my previous post regarding the documents/items that I need to get from the PMC to self-manage the property (a SFH where a family currently resides there and will continue to do so for another year) after termination of the PMA. I wanted to rephrase the post and provide more details to better explain my situation.

For reference, the house is located in Tarrant County in Texas.

After terminating the contract, the PMC said they cannot provide us with the tenant application even after the termination.
1) Would I as an owner need the information from the tenant application for any reason?
2) If a need to evict arose in the future, would I be able to file an eviction with just their name?
3) What does the following statement mean? - "Manager retains the rights following termination to all owner and tenant collection accounts."
4) Below is a general list I copied from the internet. Are there any items on this list that are optional?
5) Any other items I would need?

List of required items:

Tenant contact information - 6) Do I need each occupant's contact information or does the primary applicant's phone number and email address suffice?
Proof of tenant’s renters’ insurance coverage
(PMC said they cannot provide the tenant application as mentioned above) Copies of the tenant’s application, lease, all signed addendums, and any renewals.
Property inspection reports along with corresponding photos
Maintenance records for the last 6 to 12 months
Tenant financial ledgers and financial reports
Owner financial ledgers and financial reports
HOA forms and agreements
Copies of all property keys or door codes

Thanks in advance!

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Mark Miller:

During the PMA contract term, can a property management company legally refuse to send the initial tenant application that contains the background check and income information?

If yes, then what about after termination of contract?

What is the reason for asking? Many Landlords want to be involved in approving applications, which is ridiculous. I screen over 1,000 applications per year using written policies and procedures that abide by the law. What could a private Landlord possibly do to improve my screening process?

My policy is to not share the application, credit report, driver's license, or other personal information with the Landlord because I have a responsibility to protect that information. Once I release it to another party, I am exposing myself to liability. If the Landlord wants to know who I'm selecting, I can verbally explain that without sharing data.

We have terminated our contract with the property management company and are planning to self manage the property (it is a single family house and we are only asking for the information of the existing tenant family who is already living there and will continue to do so for another year). In case we ever needed to evict the tenant, would we not need any of their information other than their names, phone numbers, and email addresses (that is the only information the PMC has provided so far)?

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

Quote from @Bill B.:

Screening tenants and avoiding discrimination lawsuits are reason 1 & 2 for using a PM. Why would you out yourself at risk of a discrimination lawsuit by overriding their standards? If you don’t trust them hire someone else. And then get out of their way. What’s the upside to seeing it?

MAYBE if a tenant was a disaster right from the start you could say you want to know if there were any obvious red flags they didn’t see or ignored? Especially if it happened a couple times. Otherwise you’re paying them to give you more free time, enjoy it.

We have terminated our contract with the property management company and are planning to self manage the property (it is a single family house). In case we ever needed to evict the tenant, would we not need any of their information other than their contact information (that is the only information the PMC provided) ?

1 Vote

Fort Worth, Texas

During the PMA contract term, can a property management company legally refuse to send the initial tenant application that contains the background check and income information?

If yes, then what about after termination of contract?

0 Votes

Fort Worth, Texas

All Forum Posts by: Mark Miller

Mark Miller has started 2 posts and replied 10 times.

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: What tenant/other information do I require after PMA termination?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: What tenant/other information do I require after PMA termination?

Post: What tenant/other information do I require after PMA termination?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?

Post: Can a PMC legally refuse to send initial tenant application?