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All Forum Posts by: Luther Epperhart

Luther Epperhart has started 4 posts and replied 22 times.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0

Charlie,
Yup lots of STR experience. If you read through all the posts in this thread, you will see I was in error on the seasoning period. I have owned the land for over 6 months, so I don't think that will be an issue.
Not to be rude, but since this thread, I have about 5 or 6 DSCR lenders that have reached out and want to compete on numbers when I get closer to pulling the trigger. I am happy to add you to the mix, but you will need to get in touch with me. You can send me a PM for my number. A phone call would work much better in about a month from now.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Melissa Nash:

You need to use a lender like Visio that will use STR numbers. I did 3 cashout refi's with them on STR's and they literally use AirDNA, so use that for your numbers.

They will give you all the info you need.... based on the rental rates and ARV they will give you options for rates, points and % down.

For example they might require 30% to make the math work, the lowest they have gone for me is 25%. 

I highly recommend them. 


Thanks Melissa. I have worked with Visio in the past on a refi and a purchase, but new on a refi for a new build. Tbh it was kind of a nightmare, but it was during the pandemic and all businesses connected to the loan were twice as slow as usual. Maybe those issues have been resolved since then. They did up to 75% for me on the refi, but I had existing STR history on that property.
Since posting this question, I have about 5 lenders that want to compete for the two refis, so I will probably throw Visio into the mix.  
Did you work with a broker on your Visio loan?

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Quinton Booth:
Quote from @Luther Epperhart:

I will be soon finishing up two builds on STRentals, under my LLC, in the Smokey mountains I used a hard money loan for. The appraised value after the build will be about double what I will owe the hard money lender. I want to cash-out refi with a DSCR loan. Conventional will not work.
I need to cash-out 75% LTV to have $ for future projects and furniture. My two issues are,

will a DSCR Cash-Out Refi lender take the projected LTR rate or can we do comps for the STR rate? The LTR rate is much too low, but I am in Gatlinburg, so it's a common thing to build assuming STR.

also, will the lender need any seasoning period? I need to get the money as quickly as possible to furnish the rentals and don't want to loose any time as I already have land picked out for the next projects.  

Answers/suggestions or recommendations to DSCR lenders/brokers than can help me are greatly appreciated.


 Hey Luther,

Some options allow up to 80-85% of Market short-term rental income to be justified to back DSCR. Like others have said, you may run into some issues getting max 75% cash-out if the property is considered rural.

Seasoning should not be a concern as you have owned the property for more than 6 months, but this is worth considering since many products do have a strict 6-month requirement.


 Quinton,
Thanks for the info. Yes, as another commenter posted, I was in error on the seasoning period. I think I will be fine on that. This is in Gatlinburg, TN. In the county (not the city) so this may be considered rural, but I think most lenders will understand this is the largest STR market in the US, so it will have no problem cash-flowing even with conservative numbers.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Erik,
    Thank you for letting me know this. I am admittedly pretty green when it comes to new construction and title seasoning.  I appreciate your help.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Kevin Martini:

The non-QM market is constantly changing, and DSCR loans are a part of this non-QM category. A few months back, some (but not all) of my investors eliminated the cash-out seasoning requirements for DSCR. Those without seasoning for cash-out are utilizing LTR, and at 65%, no ratio is mandated. I understand this doesn't reach the 75% mark, but it's worth noting that this product is newly available and gaining traction. I anticipate that the no-seasoning DSCR will soon accommodate STR. However, I'm concerned that this change might not be timely enough for your immediate needs.

Yes, LTR can't really help me in any way, and the STR ratio might come too late.  I am going to start looking for creative DSCR lenders soon. 

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Chris Watson:

Luther,

I have done several in the Smokies pulling cashout when closing on permanent financing. You will have alot more options if you have rentals already for a year or 2. There are several lenders who will go off of STR income instead of LTR. Expect to see DSCR rates of 9% to 12%.

A word of warning.  The payment at 75% cashout with these rates may not cashflow.  I personally will not pull cashout when my 2 current builds finish up.  It is too risky with these rates, in this economy and with the uncertainty of world affairs. I would rather have to sell one to free up cash.  


Glad you know the area a bit. I have lots of STR experience owning and managing.

I 75% cashout will definitely cash flow. I do know the area as I have other rentals there, have run the comps and am doing my numbers conservatory. Plus I am very good at getting a good rental rate on STR. I cashout refied my other two properties and they still cash flow well.  They were just not ground up construction. I totally understand what you are saying though and on the next round (4 new builds after these 2), I am going to sell one and hold 3. 

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Sarah Hatton:

Hey Luther, 

The property will need to season 6 months to refinance at max ltv based on current value. There are DSCR loans that can either use AirDNA or order an appraisal based on STR, that won't be a problem. What you'll want to focus on is finding an lender/institution who is okay rural location and if so at what LTV. In my experience many lenders will cap out around 65% LTV.


 6 months after build completion would be a problem for sure. Like I said, I am going to use the cash-out to buy furniture to rent it out. 

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Erik Estrada:
Quote from @Luther Epperhart:

I will be soon finishing up two builds on STRentals, under my LLC, in the Smokey mountains I used a hard money loan for. The appraised value after the build will be about double what I will owe the hard money lender. I want to cash-out refi with a DSCR loan. Conventional will not work.
I need to cash-out 75% LTV to have $ for future projects and furniture. My two issues are,

will a DSCR Cash-Out Refi lender take the projected LTR rate or can we do comps for the STR rate? The LTR rate is much too low, but I am in Gatlinburg, so it's a common thing to build assuming STR.

also, will the lender need any seasoning period? I need to get the money as quickly as possible to furnish the rentals and don't want to loose any time as I already have land picked out for the next projects.  

Answers/suggestions or recommendations to DSCR lenders/brokers than can help me are greatly appreciated.


 Hey Luther, 

When it comes to STR's most DSCR lenders will require 6 months title seasoning to cash out on the appraised value. A handful will do 90 days as long as you can show you have completed significant renovations.

There is no seasoning requirement on a rate and term refinance. (No cash out, just payoff the hard money loan)

Some lenders will go up to 75% LTV, but majority will be at 70% LTV. Also there is a couple of options that allow you to finance fees onto the loan amount if you are tight on the cash to close.

Many lenders will require a short term market rent appraisal and some will only use 75% of the rents, others will not. Additionally most lenders will require that you have managed an STR in the past 12 months, or show that the property has 12 months of short term rental income. A couple do not have this requirement.


 Erik,
   Thanks for all this info. Tbh, I do not have 6 months to spare after the build is completed.  The build started in March, but will not be finished until next month.  I need to refi as soon as the build is done.  I have completed significant renovations since this was a brand new build from ground up. 

Rate and term will not help me in any way, it HAS to be a cash-out refi. 

I have worked with a cash-out refi DSCR lender before that did 75%, but it was not a brand new build.

I have over 3 years experience is STR. I own other properties and manage them myself under my LLC.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0
Quote from @Christopher Carlone:

Hello Luther,

How long have you owned this property/applied for the hard money loan? What is the  Fair Market Rent, Taxes/Yr, Insurance/Yr for your property?


If you would like to get on a phone call to discuss the best course of action. Feel free to send a direct message to me.

Thank you 

Chris C. 


@Chris I have owned the land for since January of this year. We started building in March. The fair market rent for STR is pretty high, the LTR would not cover the payment on a cash-out refi.

Post: DSCR Refi with a less than ideal LTR rate, but perfect STR rate?

Luther EpperhartPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 22
  • Votes 0

Thanks for all the advice and answers. I have been busy, but will address every response now that I have a moment.