All Forum Posts by: Lisa Casey

Update on Tenants...sorry in advance for the long story

I am updating the latest on my tenants and asking for advice although I am pretty sure I will be told not to give them any more chances.  We started  a one yr. lease with  Julia and Shannon July 1st, 2015.  Shannon lost his job in Aug. and has not found a new job.  Rent has been consistently late for 6 months but we were trying to work with them until the nasty emails started coming. They were paid up in Dec 2015. 

January 1st, 2016 Per lease agreement: Rent of $750 is due on or before Jan1st, 2016. *Rent has been consistently late for the last 5 months, with promise to become current

January 2nd, 2016 Email notice sent (tenant's requested method of communication) to tenant, to pay rent in full by January 8th. Received no response so also called tenant January 5th about late rent and was told it would be paid on the 8th

January 8th, 2016 Partial Payment made without approval of landlord January 8th. Tenant left $450 in door mailbox with hand written letter and promise to pay remaining balance asap. Also that Julia lost her job on Jan 3rd..... Landlord tried to call both Shannon and Julia several times to discuss rent but no answer. Received email from Julia Lynch the next day Jan.9th, asking landlord not to contact them by phone unless it is an emergency. see below

Hi Billy and Lisa,

Shannon and I are not always able to answer our phone and prefer an email if the situation is not an emergency. We have a lot going on at moment per explanation given in the note w our money order yesterday. We also had a death in the family yesterday evening and may not always be in a place for a phone call. Please email us here if you need to contact us. Thank you, Julia & Shannon

Sent certified mail "7 day Notice to pay or Quit" (by Jan 18th) on Jan 11th, also tried to hand deliver notice, no answer so taped notice to the door and also sent same notice by email to cover all bases.

Tenant reply below:

Bill and Lisa Casey,

I am writing to inform you that neither sending this information to us by email nor just taping the Notice to Pay on the door is sufficient. I do not even have to inform you of this, but per the advise I have been given, I am writing to tell you that the 7 days notice to quit must be hand delivered or sent by certified mail to be legally binding. We did not see the notice til late last night because we were out of town due to a death in the family, AS I HAD INFORMED YOU OF in the email. So its not exactly a "7 days" notice now is it?! Per the Legal Aid Network of KY: If the reason the landlord says the tenant has to move is because of nonpayment of rent, the landlord must give at least 7 days notice. For any other reason, they must give 14 days notice. The notice must be in writing, either hand-delivered or sent by registered/certified mail.

Julia  & Shannon

The law says we must send "notice to quit" by certified mail and we did on Jan 11th. It does not matter if they were gone or not. So we went to step 2 of the eviction process

In response we filed petition to evict with the court system and got a court date for Feb 10th which was served to them by the Sheriff.

No response or communication from tenant until yesterday sending a text to ck my email asap to get paid the rest of Jan. rent

Sent: Wed, Jan 27, 2016 11:26 am

Subject: w9

Ms. Casey

Ms. Lynch has recently applied for financial assistance with our agency for her January’s rent. We are able to assist her with the amount of $400.00 contingent final approval. I am sending you a W9 so that we can issue a voucher to you on her behalf. If you should have any questions and or concerns, please contact my office

Paulina Michaud

Senior Social Worker

Should I just ignore this letter and proceed with the eviction? The Social Worker told me the tenants are eligible for $300 in Feb and March also, and gave me a big sob story on how scared she was and how hard they are trying to pay.  (But as you see in mt tenant's emails she has not been crying on my shoulder.)  Our lease is very poor and has no late fees, no animal fees, they started with 2 cats which we approved and then added a dog.   No boundaries on the 18 acre property.  We thought about writing a new very strict lease (month to month) to cover all the bases and have them agree to it but I feel I am just setting myself up for more stress and failure. 

Tell me how stupid I am for even considering this route, just need some support.

Thanks again for all the input and advice.  My husband removed items from the refrigerator without incident, the tenant did not come outside at the time he was there.  As far as I know, after he left the refrigerator was picked up as I did not get any calls from LG&E that it was not signed off on.  

I am going to be to be very strict on the rent being on time, and stay calm, and not take it personally.  Also stay away as much as possible, and give a letter of 48hr notice anytime we need to access the property.  Julia often encloses a written letter with her payments and has thanked me over and over for being patient with the rent,  also underlined she is working extra hours to make the rent payment (like it is my fault).  I actually think she is unhappy with Shannon not getting a job but does not want to upset him or lose him. So she is transferring her anger to me.  That is OK, but it has gone too far and I am going to do everything according to the law and get rid of them when the opportunity presents itself.

I do have a friend that rents about 50 apts here is Louisville and has evicted about 11 times and knows the KY laws.  Of course he does not put up with any crap.  He just laughed when I showed him some of the emails I had from from tenants.

Jennifer, thanks for sharing your frustration. I know I am not the only one out there.

   I actually do not think my tenants are "bad" people either, but Julia is kind of like a mother to her boyfriend Shannon.  She is very nurturing and protective of him...they are both in mid 30s.  They supposed lived "Off the Grid" for 2 years in Maine and that is why they so badly wanted to rent this house, which is also adjacent to a County Memorial Forest.

Yes they have a one year lease that is up in July 1st, and no, it will not be renewed much to their surprise.  They think they are perfect tenants.

Collen, 

I would gladly give them an out but the truth is they do not want one. They love the property and have told us many times. When they say jump, I think my response should be "how high?" LOL

I think it is passive aggressive, and entitlement, and yes, the problem I have most is, like you said, they have lost sight over who owns the property.  As a side note, we have rented this property for about 8 years to several people no issues or complaints. For the last 4 years we were renovating it and using it on weekends ourselves. The property was not even for rent when they drove by it, but asked if they could rent it from us as it was exactly what they were looking for.  

Yes we did retrieve the chain saw, it was not in the lease.

 My husband met with the insulation contractor and,  the tenants had no reason to be involved. Shannon, is always there.  He has told us he has PTSD  and is very particular to what kind of work he will or can do. He lost his job of 8 months, a few weeks after moving in. He kept following my husband and contractor and pointing out where he thought we needed to add insulation and talking about much wood he was burning in the buck stove. My husband is a man of few words when he is around him so not to encourage his constant chatter. He asked him several times to let him work with the contractor to no avail.

As far as the refrigerator goes, it is sitting outside, we replaced it with another one cause somehow the door got broken and would not shut properly. We did not ask any questions just replaced it, when we found out.

There is no need to enter the house as the fridge is sitting outside and there is an outside electric outlet to plug it in.

I did tell the tenants a week ago that the pick up would be on the 15th but we would not know the time until they call us the day before the pick up date and we had no control over their policy .

There is a official KY notice form to enter that I will use from now on.

Thank you for your advice.  We also rent out 2 other places and have not had any problems, so this has been a learning experience, I do not want to repeat.

One more thing, I know the laws in Ky state 24-48 hour notice and I have no problem with that, but our signed lease does state:

Owners will be allowed to access the property to make repairs or work the land/cut grass, etc. at their own convenience.  

as one of the conditions of the lease.

Thank you all for the input and advice.  A couple more things.  When we installed the close foam polyurethane insulation, the contractor said that the tenants could not be there for 24 hours after because of the fumes it would emit.  The tenants said they were taking off $50 off their rent because they had to stay with a relative, and paid me $700 vs $750 on Dec 11th. I never said yes or no to this but I felt it was reasonable even though the insulation cost  me $2700.  Another complaint was the removal of the old refrigerator.  We are having it picked up by LG&E contractor through the rebate program.  It is sitting outside the house. We told our tenants it would be picked up on the 15th  a week ago but would not know the time till the day before.  It is a vintage fridge and we plan on removing some items we can use as we restore old appliances and such.  I sent this note yesterday 24 hour notice and got a response from tenant.  Should I respond or let it go?

On Dec 14, 2015 2:06 PM, "Lisa Casey"
Julia and Shannon,

Just got the call for the refrigerator pick up time. It will be picked up between 2:15 and 4:15 PM Tues Dec 15th. Billy will be coming up between 1:30 and 2 to remove some items we want to keep: drawers, shelving etc. He can plug it in, but, someone over 18 has to be there to sign off on the removal.
He can stay and wait to for them to come, but, if you prefer and are available either of you can do the sign off.
Let me know to confirm
Thanks,
Lisa Casey

Tenant Response:

Lisa, One of us will be here to plug in the refridgerator an hour before and to sign off on it. It was our understanding LGE would be here only, not Billy. This is certainly not a 48 hour notice nor an emergency. Since it is easier for us to have Billy to come tomorrow anyway it is fine this time. It will however not always be fine. We do expect that to be upheld in the future and I'm not sure why there is still confusion about giving a 48 hour notice. Thanks, Julia and Shannon

Also note my original thread is has an error.  The tenants started renting in JULY 2015 not July 2014.  They have only been there 5.5 months.

Thank you for all the replies.  To be clear, the Notice of eviction...7 days to pay the rent in full or I will proceed with the eviction process, was sent after I responded to their first letter. This is the process in KY.(They were already 5 days late with rent.) At the very end of the letter 

11. We had already scheduled the insulation installation, but considered canceling because of your note. I will be sending the email from Energy Savers shortly. Please confirm the date and conditions of the installation if you intend to stay.

I stated that the insulation upgrade to close cell polyurethane foam was already scheduled to be installed.The insulation was installed on Dec 11, so there is no repairs I have not made or promises that have not been kept, at this time.  I never promised upgraded insulation, I told them it was something I still wanted to do to the house.

Marcia.

I see I have to be more careful in the future and not let my emotions get the best of me.

Thank you for all the time and thought you put into your email. I appreciate your non biased recommendations. The house was insulated, I was just upgrading it  to close cell polyurethane foam insulation. The insulation was already scheduled to be done and we had the cash to pay for it.  At this time the new insulation is completed.

 Since you seem to be good at looking at both sides, I would appreciate your analysis of the following communication, and yes.... I was angry when I wrote the letter...The tenants response to it follows. Apologize for the long long emails. 

 I did response to them with this letter addressing their concerns:

Julia and Shannon,
Sorry to hear you are so unhappy and feel you are being unfairly treated. When you first rented the property and moved in you both were "Over the Moon" (your words) happy because of the way the place looked and all the updates. It was not until you started having trouble paying the rent because Shannon lost his job and, subsequently not getting another.... did all these unfair issues come to light.  This is the 1st I heard that your heating and cooling bills are so high.  

I would like to address your concerns:

1. "The upkeep and safety of the rental is your responsibility."

Yes it is and these are some of the things we have done before you moved in, our last renters moved out in 2012.

-Brand new HVAC system 2015, adding heat duct to bath by Estes HVAC Contractor and Alan Keith HVAC Contractor
-New ceiling and outside walls in kitchen with new ceiling and wall insulation installed 2013 Eric Martin Drywall Construction
-New insulation in living room outside walls 2013 Eric Martin Drywall
-New tile in shower, new sink and fixtures and bath and kitchen plumbing 2012 by Venhoff Plumbing and Jim Ennis Tile Co.
-All wood floors refinished and walls and ceilings painted 2013-2015 by Olek construction
- Installed new city water and plumbing 2013 by Venhoff Plumbing Co. and Louisville Water Co
- Updated all electrical, included box, added outlets, switches, ceiling fans, & more overhead lighting,also fixed any electrical issues that would be considered not up to code 2013 by Allen Electric
- Chimney cleaned by contractor and Buck stove completely restored by Chim Clean Contractor 2015
- New roof work and new Roof coating for metal roof by Stanley Allen Galaxy Roofing 2013
-New Sunroom with energy efficiency windows, walls and ceiling insulated with concrete flooring 2014 by Carpenter Jeremy Smith and Victors Concrete Co 2013
-New Washer and Dryer 2015
-Painted complete exterior of house and caulked all windows Anthony Dean Painting 2014
This and more is all documented for tax purposes.

2. "This is not personal, it is law."

Landlords make all repairs and do whatever is necessary to put and maintain the premises in a fit and habitable condition.

There is no law that requires landlords to add more insulation or the latest and greatest insulation so the tenants utility bills are the lowest they possibly can be. The insulation is neither a safety issue or an inhabitable condition.
-There is insulation in the attic and the house and we wanted to update it. Actually was scheduled to be done Nov but quote was not high enough for the work that needed to be done, so had to requote and then I broke my leg so it was delayed.
-Have had 3 quotes for Holsclaw, the latest being $2700 from Energy Savers for close cell foam, not blow in insulation, close cell is the highest quality.
-We have provided you with free furnace filters
- Helped you receive low income heating assistance
-Suggested DIY changes that you could do yourself that would be reimbursed. Thought since Shannon is not working he may have the time. Also many other Suggestions for getting help or lowering your bills.
- Would like to see your high utility bills and assistance from LG&E
-Energy Savers Owner, Linda, says you called about a possible fire hazard she told you, there is no current fire hazard in the attic
-Like you said
"We believe it is none of our business the personal decisions you are making about your own home" but yet .........you said,
"Then all the sudden you cannot afford to do any of it?" " You had from August to November to prepare for the weatherization of this home."

We were getting quotes for insulation in Aug. and actually already scheduled for Nov.
It was our own "personal decision" to have the insulation looked at , not that it was necessary to do so, and we have no legal obligation.

 You have not paid the rent on time for 5 months and we have excepted payments from outside sources (The church) and think it is fine for us to bend the rules of RENT IS DUE ON OR BEFORE THE 1st DAY OF THE MONTH.

3. "According to several sections of the Landlord Tenant Act A,B,C"

The house is in compliance with A,B,C. The house fire took place in the 1920s, 85 years ago. The burst pipe was in the winter when no one was living there and no heat was on. The second burst pipe was over the summer because of a bad weld joint and has been repaired. The plumbing has been replaced, updated, and up to code.

4. "The old vintage fridge has still not been picked up by LGE. I know you said it would be two weeks at max, but that would be in two days so I wanted to give you a heads up about that."

We had to fill out a 3rd party request paperwork to get the fridge removed since we do not live in the house and it has been accepted. We are still waiting on the call from the contractor to schedule pick -up.
We have no control over that, as their schedule is very busy. Billy told you that they said it typically takes about 2 - 3 weeks not max of 2 weeks.

We did provide a replacement fridge in a timely manner with no questions asked as to how the door got broken.

5. "We have noticed that there is not a fireplace rope seal for the door of it, which is not only needed for safety reasons, but also for proper usage of the fireplace."

Billy talked to Buck Stove Company and it is not a safety issue, only may make it slightly more efficient. Not a hard thing to do if you would feel more comfortable.

6. "We not only highly prefer a 48 hour notice before coming to the Holsclaw House, it is also law."
We have never entered the house and only on the property to fix things you requested.
Most visits no one needs to be home, Billy has come to fix mower, drop off plants, paint, supplies, fixed window, screens, weed eater, chainsaw. fridge, etc.... that did not seem to be an issue. We have always gave you notice,when we were coming and you have agreed every time. However when we need access to the house we are happy to give you 48 hr notice, and it would help if someone would respond to phone calls and emails.

7. "We are confused about the issue of the chainsaw"
Billy offered the use of his old chain saw but you were not comfortable using it. So he offered Shannon his better chain saw for 2 weeks not unlimited time. Fyi, I see you can rent one from Home Depot for $660 a month, which was what you first said you were going to do. That would be at your own expense. We are just trying to help you out and you turn this around like its our fault.

8."Please let me reiterate that being a landlord and renting out property is a business."

Yes, it is our business and we have done everything in our power to help you. We feel you have been treated more than fair. You have already violated the lease many times by not paying rent on time and we have been flexible. You signed a lease for $750 a month plus utilities. There were no stipulations about us giving you a chain saw, garden plot, trimmer, filters, septic system tablets, plants. We have reimbursed for any, and, every, no matter how small expense you may have had and try to give/find Shannon some work.

9 " We would like to propose paying $500 for the month of December, so that leaves us a $250 window for the significant increase in the LGE Bill "
Unless there is an issue with the HVAC system, which since it is brand new that would be unlikely, this is not happening. Where did you come up with the amount of $250?
I would also like to see your high LG&E bills and also the assistance you are receiving from LG&E from their low income assistance program.

On a side note, I made arrangements with the Parks Dept so you could use their garbage cans instead of paying $30 a month for trash pick from the city.

10. $750 rent is, again, past due. When will December rent be paid in full? If the late payments continue we will be considering eviction, based on recommendations from our real estate attorney.

11. We had already scheduled the insulation installation, but considered canceling because of your note. I will be sending the email from Energy Savers shortly. Please confirm the date and conditions of the installation if you intend to stay.

Lisa & Billy Casey

Tenants Response:

Lisa & Billy,

We are happy to hear that the insulation/weatherization is going to be taking place next Friday, December 11th. As per advised, we are going to be paying you rent in full (minus the $50 deduction which is explained below) next Saturday, December 12th. That way, we see the insulation done before we pay rent in full. This complies with your 7 days notice as Saturday will be the 7th day. It may be Friday afternoon, but more than likely Saturday. Because we will have to not have access to the house for a full 24 hour period (this includes our way to cook, sleep, and have shelter for us and animals) per the ability afforded on the lease, we will be deducting $50 in full for the travel costs to stay with a family member. We have yet to discuss this with the family member, but in assuming we will have to stay somewhere besides a hotel because of pets, the $50 will be barely adequate to cover the gasoline cost and the cost to eat a warm meal before we can get down there. If this does not work, we will be back in touch with you about any additional costs to stay somewhere/board animals as it is your responsibility to make sure we have a place to be during that 24 hour period. Chances are however, the family member will be okay with this date and arrangement.

It is regretful that many of the comments listed above appear to be emotionally charged and retaliatory in nature ( i.e. Rent due exactly on the first when you were fine with slight delays as long as we communicated with you about this,the chainsaw having to be given back so soon with no genuine explanation other than you wanting it back, etc). As stated before, we had meant no malice in our stating the winterizing needs of the rental and the request to have privacy. These are essential needs for any tenant anywhere (proper insulation for heat and privacy) and it is regrettable that coming to you in an air of cooperation brought negative comments/ open judgements from you that we have never received before. We have comments too, but are not airing negative things in a personal way because we wish to remain professional in our relationship to you. Though you may have not meant any ill intent in your arriving giving little but a twenty to thirty minute warning, no matter what the reason, we would very much appreciate the 48 hour notice from here on out. For instance, the time both of you came out right after the first insulation inspection, Shannon also noticed that Billy had every key to the place including the skeleton key to the front door hanging on his neck that day. That showed us there could have been intent to enter the premises without warning or notice. In the future, as you do give us notice, there has to be adequate reasoning for coming by. There is little reason to be at the house right now, other than the insulation on the 11th, and to pick up the chainsaw. ( We will plug in the old refrigerator for LGE one hour prior to the pick up, just let us know about the time they are coming.) When coming to get the chainsaw, we will place it in the back shed area so that there is no need to enter the home. We are requesting that it not be picked up on my birthday this coming Monday as to the plans to have company at the house. We would love to leave the chainsaw for your pick up on Tuesday if that is okay. If not, ok. Just let us know which one. As far as the outside light, we noticed that as well the last time when we came back from being at our folks (the week before Thanksgiving). We have no idea how that came to be that way, and was wondering if it was weather related.

To be clear, giving notice includes being on the 18 acre property as well as entering the home. I state this though it may seem obvious because the last time Billy had come by to install the bushes, he called Shannon once he was already on the property and with no warning he was coming. It is about respecting our privacy, and our schedules too, and I thank you in advance in your understanding of this need and right.

We do not however appreciate the tone that the only reason why we are asking for the insulation done on the home is because of any income issue on our end. You have always received your rent, and it is not fair to have the direct attack on us or on Shannon and whether he as employment or not. As long as you get your rent, it matters not who is paying for it. Last time I checked, we spoke to you last about Shannon needing work months ago, so I thought Id also share that it is a big assumption on your part as to whether he has employment at this time. The personal jabs are not acceptable. Though the intent to try and employ Shannon was most likely good on your end, we considered it a conflict of interest, especially working for Ford, the same employer that you both have worked for. In addition, the assumption that he had not been trying to find work suitable for himself, was rather in poor taste. You may have not meant it that way, but that is the air it came off as. Shannon, due to his disabilities, cannot work in just any work environment. We had shared with you that he was unexpectedly unemployed merely so you would have an understanding/explanation if the rent was slightly late. I had personally thought you would understand most of all, considering your sharing with us that your own son had suffered from the same terribly difficult disorder. (As a personal side note, we genuinely express our condolences to the both of you, as we know this time of year is especially difficult. We recently inadvertently found out his date of passing, and it oddly enough is the same death date as Shannon's father who also chose to end his life.. It is difficult during the holidays anyhow. We understand, and express our deepest of sympathies. We are sure you miss him greatly, as we all do our loved ones, and are sorry for your loss near the holidays.)

As far as the shed painting work you gave Shannon, yes--it was highly appreciated and we expressed that already. But I believe that we both benefited from that situation, considering the work Shannon did painting both sheds was easily more than $200 worth of work. I point this out because your email implies we are a charity case instead of respectful adults and I am not going to engage in an email war of insults.

To mention your "over the moon" comment, though it is not our exact words, you are correct, we do like the house very much and was very happy to move in to a beautiful home such as this historic place. Many of those reasons are why we chose to rent it. We did however assume it was or was going to be winterized per our conversations about the weather stripping, etc, and the mere fact that it is a year lease showed us that the place would/should be winterized. We appreciated moving in to a house for us ready to go in many other ways (as per your list of things done to the house prior to our being tenants there), and that is why we gave you a thank you card expressing the care given to make sure it was nice upon move in. But might I point out that anything done prior to the house before our renting it is irrelevant to the current need of insulation. I assume that is why you are charging us the rental amount that you agreed to of $750, especially since we had heard that the last tenants you had were charged $550/month. So I'm guessing the work you had done in the meantime is why the rent is probably higher.

No one asks to open a wall and look at the insulation or go into the attic and see how old or if the roof is insulated, or go under the craw space of a house to see if the pipes are winterized when looking at rental. People assume it is done properly if the place is being rented for year round use. With that said, we are happy that the work is going to be done soon, so that we can put this negative interaction behind us and that we can stay properly warm.

To be clear and ridiculously redundant, we do not wish to have a negative relationship with our landlords. We plan on paying you rent in full every month (with the small deductions when needed as we have). If you wish to have communication on the first if it must be late or partially late, we can do that. Our intent is to be paying on time, and to uphold the lease as per our tenant duties. Prior to this situation there was give and take from both parties to keep things professional and comfortable. It is our hopes that this rapport can continue. Please let us know if you have any further questions about the nature or content of this email so any miscommunication or confusions can be avoided. Thanks for your time.

Regards ,

Julia Lynch & Shannon Peterson

Joel,

The"inspection" they are talking about is nothing to do with the lease they signed in July nor does the lease mention insulation will be added.  The "inspection occurred when I hired Energy Savers to give me a quote to install new insulation.  There is no fire hazard in the attic or otherwise. Their statements are just untrue.  And also we did already have the insulation scheduled. They actually showed up to do the job and decided the original quote was not accurate, so had to re-quote. Shortly after I broke my leg, so the insulation got delayed, then I got the tenant's letter. I have include pictures right before they moved into the house.  It is not inhabitable and had a brand new HVAC installed in  January 2015.