Tardus is legit. I think the patent Tanisha received is well worth the effort. Yes it costs money for the coaching, but the typical investor would take decades of trial and error of other investing techniques and would probably never arrive a systematic way of approaching investing for cashflow as is created with the income snowball. Most from the BP community understand wealth is not created by just saving and investing (e.g. traditional 401K) unless you are able to start very young and just do it consistently for 30-40 yrs. Real wealth creating by using leverage (not debt) appropriately. The BP community of course naturally gravitates to fixed rate long-term debt on real assets as probably the safest way to use leverage to build wealth. Short term leverage inherently increases our risk. E.g. if you use margin or options, bridge loans with 1yr balloon payments, etc.... this can be very risky.
One of the biggest value-ads for Tardus is it teaches you a system on how to analyze investment opportunities and use short-term leverage in a risk mitigated and consistent matter. To reiterate, Tardus is not a wealth management company...they don't invest your money...you are the one who retains control. Tardus is a wealth coaching company. They teach you the systematic way to invest and how to analyze investments for a cash flow mindset. It is very algorithmic-ly dictated based on and numbers and percentages. Any "spreadsheet freaks" out there are gonna be amazed when you dig deep into crunching the numbers. So in my opinion, it teaches me how to use short-term leverage to build an income snowball...then once I get an efficient and ever-increasing machine...I pivot that into getting more long-term assets (using safe, long-term leverage). Using the short and long-term leverage accelerates my TIME FREEDOM date.
They have a bunch of free videos out there related to the Income Snowball and their new partnership with rent-to-retirement, and a very savvy "numbers person" could probably surmise and re-create the system on their own if they really want to be cheap. But why do that huge lift? Just pay for the coaching, it will pay for itself eventually, you will get all the support you need to be successful and join a lively community of like-minded individuals all trying to help each other succeed. You are sum total of the people you surround yourself with.
I am a Tardus paying client, none of us that recently posted get any sort of kickback or referral fee for talking about our experiences on BP (although I do believe there is a referral bonus if you refer a new client...but it is nominal enough that no one is trying to bring in new members soley for this bonus). In our closed group, it was just mentioned that this forum thread was discovered and that everyone responding were just speculating with no actual clients commenting. A request for honest feedback was requested and within the matter of hours/days, many of us were willing to comment. I think that goes a lot to show you how engaged Tardus clients are. Yes, we pay a fee for the coaching, that many of us feel is fully worth the cost, maybe having "skin-in-game" makes us more likely to take action and be excited about the company, but that is for you to decide. I am pretty sure they give free consultations to explore your financial position and current cashflow, to see how Tardus could be of help to you and if they would be a good fit for achieving your goals.
I have been looking at Tardus and one of my primary questions is how they identify "fast burning" vs "Slow burning" fuel. For fast burning, you need to find an investment with 30-50% cash on cash returns - that is where I am skeptical - I have already invested in many of the vehicles they suggest and have not seen that kind of return (or it involves more risk). Since you retain control of your money, how does one consistently maintain 30-50% cash on cash return?
Hi Heidi, I'm not sure which investments you have tried yourself but I can let you know the ones I've tried personally with my snowball.
Peer to Peer lending (on Prosper) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $320/month for 3 years. $320 x 12 months = $3,849/$10,000 initial investment = 38% CoC Return
The Legacy Income Model (this is a product a financial planning firm created specifically for Tardus clients) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $310/month for 3 years. $310 X 12 months = $3,720 in a year. $3,720/$10,000 initial investment = 37% CoC Return
You can receive similar results with other investments that pay principal & interest. These can be things like mortgage notes, crypto loans, personal or business loans, some clients have even used MCA or their infinite banking policies. Tardus has hundreds of clients who are using the old "tried and true" methods that are extremely passive or finding new ones that require further due diligence. It's really up to the individual investor (and their coach who helps them create their criteria and decision-making process.) Tardus is "investment agnostic" - they're teaching the strategy, not affiliated with a specific type of investment.
Sure it’s 37% of your cash back but 320x36 = 11,520 or 1,520 return on 10k after 3 years which is a single digit return rate and risky. With todays borrowing rates it’s inconsequential.
Hi Rocky, the power isn't in the individual investment return (although obviously the higher, the better) but in the stacking of the monthly income combined with leverage. The high cash-on-cash return is important because it allows for a high monthly payment (from the return of the principal), which "fuels" the Income Snowball. It's not a substitute for a true return rate.
Can you show the calculations behind the strategy? I have been looking at Tardus and attending some of the webinars, and reading reviews and what I am struggling with is no one addresses the risk side...Prosper, paperstac, crypto, etc. all have risk...as does any investment. And yes, I invest on Prosper in $25 increments, but I have still had defaults. Same with real estate crowdfunding - there are defaults. Crypto values plummet, etc., etc. Also, Upgrade (which is what I was told I would need to work with Tardus) charges 12-20% interest on their LOCs...so while you may be paying it off in 3-4 months, you are still paying interest that accrues daily on those loans...which I why I need to see the actual calculations.
Also - do you need to use a LOC or can you just use idle cash on hand? Why not borrow from your 401K and pay yourself back? Or your life insurance (assuming you have the ability to borrow)?
Some clients have chosen to recreate the calculations in the patent (you can find it on google) in an excel doc with their own personal numbers. But this is what the Income Snowball calculator software does. You do have to factor in the interest you will pay, as well as account for some defaults... Of course there is risk someone could default..that could happen with any investment. The income snowball helps reduce your risk by accelerating your purchase of more investments quickly so your overall portfolio isn't at risk by a few defaults.
You could use your own cash or savings if you wanted. That would basically just be traditional investing, which would move much slower than using leverage, and not the Income Snowball, but still better than doing nothing with your money. Not only is the amount you have access to limited, but the cash-on-cash return on leverage is much higher than with your own money, where you're just getting the actual return of the investment.
Any sort of revolving line of credit would work (and it doesn't need to come from Upgrade. Most people actually have the most luck with a local credit union) Some people use a HELOC, a business line of credit. A life insurance policy works, I know lots of Tardus people that do that and love it. I think a 401k wouldn't work because you can't reuse it...it would just be like a loan, so you'd have to get it over and over again, which most 401ks wouldn't allow and they have a lot of other penalties and limitations.
@Lindsie Akers
I don't recommend using CoC as it relates to a principal and interest payment.
Let’s say you invested $10,800 and they were paying $300/mo for 36 months. Wow - that’s a 36% cash on cash (3600/yr on your investment)
But wait after 3 years you have $10,800 or your original investment - you made NO money.
A better analysis is IRR which $320/mo for 3 years is 11,520 on a $10k investment which is a 7.5% IRR.
Not recommending for or against this product, just stating information on the numbers provided and my opinion on which metric to use and be careful on how some types of analytical terms are used to make them seem like an awesome investment
Hey Chris, you're right when evaluating the investment as a stand-alone - if you were putting $10,000 of your own money or savings into the investment then using cash on cash return would probably be an overinflation.
However, the Income Snowball uses OPM "other people's money" aka leverage, to invest so the returned principal isn't your own money. You use your own personal cash flow + the income produced from the investments to pay down the leverage in a matter of months and then reinvest it again and again creating a "snowball" of income.
There's a pretty comprehensive video on the website (The Income Snowball Video) that goes over it or feel free to google the patent!
Tardus is legit. I think the patent Tanisha received is well worth the effort. Yes it costs money for the coaching, but the typical investor would take decades of trial and error of other investing techniques and would probably never arrive a systematic way of approaching investing for cashflow as is created with the income snowball. Most from the BP community understand wealth is not created by just saving and investing (e.g. traditional 401K) unless you are able to start very young and just do it consistently for 30-40 yrs. Real wealth creating by using leverage (not debt) appropriately. The BP community of course naturally gravitates to fixed rate long-term debt on real assets as probably the safest way to use leverage to build wealth. Short term leverage inherently increases our risk. E.g. if you use margin or options, bridge loans with 1yr balloon payments, etc.... this can be very risky.
One of the biggest value-ads for Tardus is it teaches you a system on how to analyze investment opportunities and use short-term leverage in a risk mitigated and consistent matter. To reiterate, Tardus is not a wealth management company...they don't invest your money...you are the one who retains control. Tardus is a wealth coaching company. They teach you the systematic way to invest and how to analyze investments for a cash flow mindset. It is very algorithmic-ly dictated based on and numbers and percentages. Any "spreadsheet freaks" out there are gonna be amazed when you dig deep into crunching the numbers. So in my opinion, it teaches me how to use short-term leverage to build an income snowball...then once I get an efficient and ever-increasing machine...I pivot that into getting more long-term assets (using safe, long-term leverage). Using the short and long-term leverage accelerates my TIME FREEDOM date.
They have a bunch of free videos out there related to the Income Snowball and their new partnership with rent-to-retirement, and a very savvy "numbers person" could probably surmise and re-create the system on their own if they really want to be cheap. But why do that huge lift? Just pay for the coaching, it will pay for itself eventually, you will get all the support you need to be successful and join a lively community of like-minded individuals all trying to help each other succeed. You are sum total of the people you surround yourself with.
I am a Tardus paying client, none of us that recently posted get any sort of kickback or referral fee for talking about our experiences on BP (although I do believe there is a referral bonus if you refer a new client...but it is nominal enough that no one is trying to bring in new members soley for this bonus). In our closed group, it was just mentioned that this forum thread was discovered and that everyone responding were just speculating with no actual clients commenting. A request for honest feedback was requested and within the matter of hours/days, many of us were willing to comment. I think that goes a lot to show you how engaged Tardus clients are. Yes, we pay a fee for the coaching, that many of us feel is fully worth the cost, maybe having "skin-in-game" makes us more likely to take action and be excited about the company, but that is for you to decide. I am pretty sure they give free consultations to explore your financial position and current cashflow, to see how Tardus could be of help to you and if they would be a good fit for achieving your goals.
I have been looking at Tardus and one of my primary questions is how they identify "fast burning" vs "Slow burning" fuel. For fast burning, you need to find an investment with 30-50% cash on cash returns - that is where I am skeptical - I have already invested in many of the vehicles they suggest and have not seen that kind of return (or it involves more risk). Since you retain control of your money, how does one consistently maintain 30-50% cash on cash return?
Hi Heidi, I'm not sure which investments you have tried yourself but I can let you know the ones I've tried personally with my snowball.
Peer to Peer lending (on Prosper) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $320/month for 3 years. $320 x 12 months = $3,849/$10,000 initial investment = 38% CoC Return
The Legacy Income Model (this is a product a financial planning firm created specifically for Tardus clients) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $310/month for 3 years. $310 X 12 months = $3,720 in a year. $3,720/$10,000 initial investment = 37% CoC Return
You can receive similar results with other investments that pay principal & interest. These can be things like mortgage notes, crypto loans, personal or business loans, some clients have even used MCA or their infinite banking policies. Tardus has hundreds of clients who are using the old "tried and true" methods that are extremely passive or finding new ones that require further due diligence. It's really up to the individual investor (and their coach who helps them create their criteria and decision-making process.) Tardus is "investment agnostic" - they're teaching the strategy, not affiliated with a specific type of investment.
Thank you Lindsie! Much appreciated! I have done peer-to-peer lending in the past and one default wiped out nearly all of my gains, so it's great if no one defaults, but if they do, then you have an issue. I still invest on Prosper, but I do so with skepticism as I have seen the impact of one default.
I have also invested in mortgage notes and so far no one has defaulted, but if someone does, I am not sure how much it will cost me to exercise my lien (I imagine there are some legal fees involved, but since I have not yet experienced it, I cannot speak to it first hand).
I am only skeptical because I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable when it comes to leveraging money, investing, etc. but I have also over-leveraged myself, taken on too much risk, and sustained pretty large losses - which it doesn't matter what your return or CoC is when you wipe it all out with one loss.
Hey Heidi, you definitely are smart to do your due diligence and make sure you fully understand the investment and the risk involved before diving in. With peer to peer were you investing all of your $ into one or just a few loans? Tardus coaches (I believe a lot of people who invest in p2p even outside of Tardus do this too) recommend splitting your investment across many loans. So if I choose $25 notes, my $10,000 is split across 400 notes, meaning if one defaults it's not the end of the world because the others will continue to pay out. Also, one of the reasons the snowball helps avoid risk is you're continuously reinvesting the same leverage so it would be nearly impossible to over-leverage. For example, if my investments were $10k like I used in the example...then I'm using a $10k line of credit, then completely paying it off in just a few months. So while I'm doing a new investment every few months, and keep stacking up more income, I'm not wracking up any debt or anything.
Hey Zach, Tardus is "investment agnostic." They don't recommend/aren't affiliated with a specific investment. You remain in control of your own money and do all of your own investing. Tardus is a coaching and education company that works with you to teach you to make smart investment decisions on your own, using the Income Snowball. The Income Snowball is just a method or strategy for investing.
There is a specific criteria required of the investments to make them work with the snowball, but they are investments that have been around for decades. The returns sound so high because one of the requirements is that the returns be principal and interest, not just interest.
Theres a number of different types of investments that fit the criteria, but we like to use peer to peer lending as an easy example;
Peer to Peer lending (on Prosper) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $320/month for 3 years. $320 x 12 months = $3,849/$10,000 initial investment = 38% CoC Return
There's another thread on here where a lot of Tardus clients are giving their input as well; https://www.biggerpockets.com/...
(disclaimer, I work for Tardus in marketing, but I am not a coach)
Tardus is legit. I think the patent Tanisha received is well worth the effort. Yes it costs money for the coaching, but the typical investor would take decades of trial and error of other investing techniques and would probably never arrive a systematic way of approaching investing for cashflow as is created with the income snowball. Most from the BP community understand wealth is not created by just saving and investing (e.g. traditional 401K) unless you are able to start very young and just do it consistently for 30-40 yrs. Real wealth creating by using leverage (not debt) appropriately. The BP community of course naturally gravitates to fixed rate long-term debt on real assets as probably the safest way to use leverage to build wealth. Short term leverage inherently increases our risk. E.g. if you use margin or options, bridge loans with 1yr balloon payments, etc.... this can be very risky.
One of the biggest value-ads for Tardus is it teaches you a system on how to analyze investment opportunities and use short-term leverage in a risk mitigated and consistent matter. To reiterate, Tardus is not a wealth management company...they don't invest your money...you are the one who retains control. Tardus is a wealth coaching company. They teach you the systematic way to invest and how to analyze investments for a cash flow mindset. It is very algorithmic-ly dictated based on and numbers and percentages. Any "spreadsheet freaks" out there are gonna be amazed when you dig deep into crunching the numbers. So in my opinion, it teaches me how to use short-term leverage to build an income snowball...then once I get an efficient and ever-increasing machine...I pivot that into getting more long-term assets (using safe, long-term leverage). Using the short and long-term leverage accelerates my TIME FREEDOM date.
They have a bunch of free videos out there related to the Income Snowball and their new partnership with rent-to-retirement, and a very savvy "numbers person" could probably surmise and re-create the system on their own if they really want to be cheap. But why do that huge lift? Just pay for the coaching, it will pay for itself eventually, you will get all the support you need to be successful and join a lively community of like-minded individuals all trying to help each other succeed. You are sum total of the people you surround yourself with.
I am a Tardus paying client, none of us that recently posted get any sort of kickback or referral fee for talking about our experiences on BP (although I do believe there is a referral bonus if you refer a new client...but it is nominal enough that no one is trying to bring in new members soley for this bonus). In our closed group, it was just mentioned that this forum thread was discovered and that everyone responding were just speculating with no actual clients commenting. A request for honest feedback was requested and within the matter of hours/days, many of us were willing to comment. I think that goes a lot to show you how engaged Tardus clients are. Yes, we pay a fee for the coaching, that many of us feel is fully worth the cost, maybe having "skin-in-game" makes us more likely to take action and be excited about the company, but that is for you to decide. I am pretty sure they give free consultations to explore your financial position and current cashflow, to see how Tardus could be of help to you and if they would be a good fit for achieving your goals.
I have been looking at Tardus and one of my primary questions is how they identify "fast burning" vs "Slow burning" fuel. For fast burning, you need to find an investment with 30-50% cash on cash returns - that is where I am skeptical - I have already invested in many of the vehicles they suggest and have not seen that kind of return (or it involves more risk). Since you retain control of your money, how does one consistently maintain 30-50% cash on cash return?
Hi Heidi, I'm not sure which investments you have tried yourself but I can let you know the ones I've tried personally with my snowball.
Peer to Peer lending (on Prosper) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $320/month for 3 years. $320 x 12 months = $3,849/$10,000 initial investment = 38% CoC Return
The Legacy Income Model (this is a product a financial planning firm created specifically for Tardus clients) - Invested $10,000 initially - receive $310/month for 3 years. $310 X 12 months = $3,720 in a year. $3,720/$10,000 initial investment = 37% CoC Return
You can receive similar results with other investments that pay principal & interest. These can be things like mortgage notes, crypto loans, personal or business loans, some clients have even used MCA or their infinite banking policies. Tardus has hundreds of clients who are using the old "tried and true" methods that are extremely passive or finding new ones that require further due diligence. It's really up to the individual investor (and their coach who helps them create their criteria and decision-making process.) Tardus is "investment agnostic" - they're teaching the strategy, not affiliated with a specific type of investment.
Following this post. I would also like to know if the snowball strategy they describe is sustainable. In the presentation they provide, they never consider the interest that needs to be paid on the borrowed money. I am curious about how that works.
There is a little bit of interest on the borrowed money but since you are paying it off so quickly (with the system you're paying off the entire line of credit in somewhere between 3-6 months) it is nominal and while the lower the better, the interest rate isn't super important.
Hello BiggerPockets members. Love his community.
Have anyone of you hired Tardus for wealth coaching? They are the creators of the Income Snowball (i.e. Income Snowball, a system of investing in which a person can create self-sustaining passive income). I'm looking to find unbiased reviews of their service.
Thanks!
Just looked at their website. I don’t see anything glaringly wrong with their concept but 2 things have caused a red light. 1. Continual use of buzz words to describe their concepts and 2. Claim that their financial wealth consulting offers concepts only they provide. That claim can not be even remotely true. They seem to be a financial planning company with a bend to aggressive investing in alternative assets. But if they just said that they wouldn’t appear unique.
There’s been a lot of “dumbing down” of financial services and coaching in the last 5 years. The results are people who don’t know that their stock picks can go down as well as up; who think that the ‘stock market” guarantees a 15% annual yield; who don’t have any concept of risk, or it’s relationship with return; and who believe that the intrinsic value of an investment is somehow directly related to its last 12 month pricing movement. When the next down market comes, it’s going to be brutal.
Hey there, Tardus employee here (not a wealth coach) so not unbiased, but just wanted to clarify that the strategies and investments used here certainly aren't unique. People have been using leverage and investing in alternatives for decades. The unique selling point is the technique, which is how they got a patent. There are also plenty of investment options that aren't tied to the stock market at all. The Income Snowball is the bread & butter - but the real value is in the coaching.
Sorry ^ this last comment was mine, but I realized I had multiple bigger pockets accounts and had to consolidate.