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All Forum Posts by: Ladd McClain

Ladd McClain has started 3 posts and replied 8 times.

Awesome. 1031 complete. Thanks for your help! 

My wife and I created an LLC to purchase a 4plex a few years ago. We are the 'members'. We just sold and need to 1031 our proceeds into a new property. I understand our LLC needs to purchase the property. About to start shopping but realtor wants to know how we will 'take title', as Tenants in Common or Joint Tenancy. Which is best for an LLC with two members?

Post: Partnerships with Friends

Ladd McClainPosted
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 3
Quote from @Ben Firstenberg:
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Ben Firstenberg:

In this case, you could maybe set it up where you get an "asset management fee" every month and a small % of the deal, like maybe 10-25% and your friends get the rest of the equity and any excess cash flow?

I would think about it more like this: these people want to be purely passive investors. Passive investments in other asset classes typically average between 5-8% and stocks will do 8-12%. So I would target a return for them (call it 12-20+%, whatever you think) and then figure out the best way to get there. Maybe that means you give them 50% of the deal, maybe it means you give them 80%. 

Institutional investors also set up their investments with a "waterfall" structure, where the better the deal performs, the higher % of the profits goes to the "operator" and the passive investors get more total money, but less total %. It can get extremely complicated very quickly, so I don't know if I would recommend it, but depending on your situation it might be worth looking in to.  


I can see partner #1 "the funder" giving partner #2 "the manager" an asset mgmt fee which is really a property management fee (see state real estate license laws) but I've never understood a real buyer giving away equity just because they're short on time but have the money; in this case up to a quarter of ownership so another person can be a permanent property manager. Why can't the person funding it just hire a property manager? And how does that look tax wise? If you're getting upwards of 10% to 25% of of equity from the the deal, it's a taxable event and taxable income so even if you don't get check you're still pay the IRS. Also, at closing you need to find a way to just declare ownership without contribution, maybe put that in the operating agreement. And, consider the the fact that you're a Day 1 owner with equity without contribution, so what if you just don't fulfill your obligation as an "asset manager"? Then what, you're still an owner, is the buyer ok with this? 

Just some points to consider. 

To answer your first question: why can't the person with the money hire a property manager? They absolutely could, but then they would have to learn how to invest in real estate, which is not easy. As the managing partner in this transaction, the value you add is your knowledge and skills. You find the deals, win the deals and manage the investment. Don't underestimate how much value that is.

To answer your other question: While you can do it, I wouldn't go into a partnership with one partner contributing NO cash equity to the deal. You're correct, most passive investors would not be okay with that. Plus, you should WANT to put your own money in the deals! As the managing partner, I'd put in at least 10%. My point is, since you're doing all the work you should get more equity than just the cash you put in.  


Yes, I should have been more specific. In the theoretical deal we would have some skin in the game (5-10% maybe). But on the buy we're also getting access via our connections to realtors and wholesalers to off-market deals and capturing considerable equity. Our investing partners are benefitting from that and our record of buying in the right neighborhood, experience managing, in house maintenance guy (me), a record of staying in the black for over fifteen years, and most importantly trust. These are friends who have seen us successfully running a small real estate side hustle for years. They know us as a trustworthy and honest couple. I think that counts for a lot. Appreciate all the feedback! It's always good to get pushed a little to consider all the angles and pitfalls.

Post: Partnerships with Friends

Ladd McClainPosted
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 3
Quote from @Max Ferguson:

I love @Ben Firstenberg 's numbers on this. A very nice outline of what to expect. I implore you to do these three things before you jump in:

1. Go to your local real estate meetup, talk to as many investors as possible. I'm talking as many as you can, an uncomfortable number. You will thank yourself later for this. Get a feel for what local syndications and acquisition deals are. Every market is slightly different but Ben provided a nice baseline of range for you to expect. Talking with folks that have previously done these types of deals will help greatly, and could give you some ideas for branching out on your own in case the partnership doesn't work. 

2. REALLY consider who you are partnering with. Do they truly want to be a passive investor? I turn down people almost weekly now because it is a large risk to partner with someone who is not of extreme high net worth. It is a horrible truth about our country but consider if one of them gets sick, a freak accident etc... Will these people have enough money to not need to liquidate everything at a possible loss?

3. Leading in from the last statement, create a SOLID exit plan. A contract written by a lawyer that strictly outlines return ranges, clauses if something extreme happens, how long you plan to hold, etc... This can really save you in the event that something happens. You need the security just as much as your investors, if not more. For me, this is a non-negotiable point of the process. You are essentially marrying your financials to these individuals by creating a deal like this. 

These are just my thoughts, and most deals normally go off without a hitch. I like to warn folks as to the pitfalls of deals like this as it could financially ruin you for years. "Multifamily millionaire" is a great book to check out about acquisitions and structuring deals with other folks. It helped a lot to learn how acquisitions work, and was especially cool to read it while working at an acquisitions company that used a very similar strategy. Good luck and keep us updated!


 

@Max Ferguson

These are great points. We have a good investor/CPA friend who always lines us up with her real estate lawyer when we have a deal in our cross-hairs. A little pricey but well worth the piece of mind to have the details in writing. Appreciate the book recommendation too. Thanks! 

Post: Partnerships with Friends

Ladd McClainPosted
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 3
Quote from @Ben Firstenberg:

In this case, you could maybe set it up where you get an "asset management fee" every month and a small % of the deal, like maybe 10-25% and your friends get the rest of the equity and any excess cash flow?

I would think about it more like this: these people want to be purely passive investors. Passive investments in other asset classes typically average between 5-8% and stocks will do 8-12%. So I would target a return for them (call it 12-20+%, whatever you think) and then figure out the best way to get there. Maybe that means you give them 50% of the deal, maybe it means you give them 80%. 

Institutional investors also set up their investments with a "waterfall" structure, where the better the deal performs, the higher % of the profits goes to the "operator" and the passive investors get more total money, but less total %. It can get extremely complicated very quickly, so I don't know if I would recommend it, but depending on your situation it might be worth looking in to.  


 This is great. Just the kind of jumping off point numbers I need to start a conversation at least. And your point about aiming for % of return based on doing a little better than the stock market makes a lot of sense. I'll start running numbers and test the water a little with my friends to see if there's a possibility of a win/win scenario. Thank you for taking the time to respond!

Post: Partnerships with Friends

Ladd McClainPosted
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 3

My wife and I are teachers and over time have leveraged ourselves to several medium term rentals in the sweet spot between two hospitals. Nurses mostly. We've been self-managing for several years and have that dialed in. Unfortunately, we are tapped out for now financially but are starting to see some price drops in this neighborhood. We have partnered with one couple to go halfsies on a couple houses. 

Now to the question. We have other friends with money who have lots of cash and don't really need cash-flow. They have expressed interest in real estate as a way of putting their money somewhere safer than stocks et. We on the other hand have several kids going to college and do need cash flow. Every situation is unique, but what is a typical arrangement for a partnership where one party isn't bringing much money to the deal but is willing to do all the management, maintenance, red tape etc?

Chris, thank you for your reply. we've only ever done HELOCS on houses that we were occupying. Does a line of credit on a rental property come with a higher rate or any other drawbacks? 

Hi! My wife and I are teachers who have been doing the real estate side hustle for 18 years. We're unsophisticated investors (we just heard about Bigger Pockets a couple years ago, LOL). But we have acquired five properties through slow and steady BRRR methods, before we'd even heard of BRRR. Most of our properties are cute downtown A-class properties that we rent as furnished-finders or long term leases. We buy low, I fix them up in my summers and my wife makes them pretty. Now to our dilemma. Our worst performing property is an outlier in our portfolio. It's a 4plex in a C-class neighborhood. We found an owner finance deal in 2006. The neighborhood wasn't great but there was a university nearby and I was hoping for gentrification that really hasn't materialized. In 2017, I approached the note holder about re-financing and he agreed if we would shorten the note to a 15 year term. The rate is 3.2% and we have 10 years remaining on the note. There is $138,000 remaining on the note and the property is roughly valued at $625,000. The rents are low because we haven't been able to keep up on renovations (last one in 2013) and we attract a low-earning/higher maintenance tenant. Confession: We are guilty of some malaise and hopelessness with this property. We're leveraged pretty high on our other properties (HELOCS and cash-out refis) so there's not much money available right now. We don't have a lot of money in reserves as we are paying cash for our kids' to college etc. We're in the Catch 22 of wanting to renovate the interiors in order to raise rents but being short on funds to do so. Current rents are $800/mox4 =$3200. Comparable rents in the neighborhood are $950-$1100/mo. I estimate it would take $60k-$70K to renovate including a new roof. We're not sure if we should give up that 3.2% rate to refi to a rate double that. Also, the idea of continuing to pay this thing off faster has some appeal as I approach retirement in 4-5 years. Not sure if we should power through and try to save the money and do this with cash in two or three years or get creative with financing now, take out a loan? Any feedback is greatly appreciated!