All Forum Posts by: Kyle Vogeler
Kyle Vogeler has started 16 posts and replied 103 times.
Post: Section 8 rentals
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
There are some great tenants that use section 8; there are also some not-so-great tenants that use the program. That being said, I am generally in favor of this style investing and have purchased a few properties that qualify for section 8 assistance.
Post: Have You Ever Lost a Deal Because of Financing?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
I always add a clause to my PSA contracts saying that I have the right to extend the date of closing by 30 days if I put an additional 1% Earnest Money Deposit into escrow. This deposit would be non-refundable, so you only execute this extension if you know you can close on the property, but it tends to take a lot of stress off of you when the bank says they need more time.
Post: Investing in different cities.
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Each city offers it's own strengths and weaknesses, so it really depends on your strategy.
A city with low average incomes may still be a good and profitable buy if you're target property is low income housing. This is a very different strategy from investing in a city where real estate appreciates quickly and monthly cash flow is low. But both strategy can and do work.
That being said, the most important things I look for is to ensure there is a strong population base, and that the market isn't flooded with vacant apartments. After I confirm those two factors, I adjust my strategy to work with the property I'm looking at.
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @Timothy Hero:
How liquid are you and willing to lend out?
Sometimes, raising your minimum and shaking out those investors is your best bet. I have a motto: "the smallest deals come with the biggest headaches and smallest pay days". My clients borrowing $500k have their stuff together. They know the process and don't complain over a $50 thing.
The $75k loan borrowers? 70% of the time come with headaches.
This is a good point. I've currently only dealt with people that have leant me larger amounts of funds and there has been no headaches. I haven't considered that people loaning less will be more of a problem... I will have to try to get a good gauge of how peculiar an investor is prior to accepting their money.
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @James Hamling:
I am really confused here @Kyle Vogeler.
Your talking multi-family, which intones size. And value-add which ad's complexity. And your looking to do this in a way that sure as heck sounds like syndication, but not following sec rules & reg's until having done some......
And all of this with just $10k from LP's......
This sounds like a recipe for all kinds of bad outcome potentials.
What am I not getting here?
I created this post because I realize that there are people out there that want to invest with us but obviously don't have hundreds of thousands to invest. I don't want to overlook these investors so I wanted to ask others what the general minimum is for accepting investment. That being said, I realize that once I accept a $10,000 investment that I will need multiple investors to close on a property and at that point I will be completing a syndication. I am already interviewing lawyers that handle syndications to make sure I stay in compliance.
I apologize if anything I said above made that unclear.
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @Ricardo R.:
Working hard for that google review lol... Glad it helped! I think starting at $10K for first-time investors and then moving to $25K for repeat ones makes a ton of sense. It gives people a chance to see how you work without scaring them off with a big upfront number, and once they trust the process, most will naturally want to put in more anyway.
That’s exactly how we’ve seen a lot of small and mid-size operators grow—start small, prove yourself, then scale with people who already know you deliver.
Out of curiosity, are you mainly doing flips with the fixed-return model, or are you planning to add longer-term holds too? That might change how you structure the minimums down the road.
I focus on value-add multi-family properties, so my required holding period would be more long term.
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @Doug Smith:
When we first started, we had a lot of contacts with private equity and set our minimums super-high. We took on some big, 7-figure investors...then the harsh reality set in. They micro-managed our operationg with no clue what they were talking about. We liquidated, gave the money back, and started "shoe-stringing it". The answer for us is this - if we really like the person and can be assured that the capital is "patient capital", meaning they are in for at least 12-months, then we'll go pretty low...into that $25K arena using a debt instrument. We usually can't justify doing equity unless it's $250K or more, but I truly like working with the lower dollar amounts that are just nice people. In short, I think the minimum amount of investment/debt structure, for us, is inversely proportional to the pain-in-the-butt factor.
Thanks for sharing your experience - that is definitely an aspect of receiving investments that I haven't fully considered yet. If someone offers a lot of money but wants to boss you around and control you, then it may not be worth the time!
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @Ned Carey:
@Kyle Vogeler from the way you phrase your question it seems you are putting together a syndication that would require SEC compliance. In that case a an absolute min would be $25k (most would be $50-100k( due to the hassle of complying. It is not worth it for $10k. If you are borrowing from one person for a flip then $10k is fine if that is what you need.
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @Arman Ahmed:
Kyle — no fixed “common” size. In my Midwest deals I’ve seen $10k for short-term flips up to $100k+ for buy-and-holds. Instead of a hard minimum, tiers can work — smaller for short gaps, larger for long-term.
This is helpful. I will tailor my investment size based on the deal. Thanks
Post: What is the most common loan size you see from investors?
- Rental Property Investor
- Emmaus, PA
- Posts 105
- Votes 56
Quote from @William Thompson:
I see this a lot with my investor clients—$25K is common as a minimum, but it really depends on your deal structure. Too low and the admin costs eat you alive, too high and you shut out good capital. The sweet spot is usually the number that balances efficiency with the type of investors you want to attract.
I am going to throw out some "feelers" by asking my potential investors what they would feel comfortable investing. This would at least give me an idea of where the "market minimum" is.