All Forum Posts by: Kurt F.

@Jim Adrian

@Jim Adrian As I mentioned...  but it seems it need to be clarified.

Open cell can of course be used in retrofit.

Actually, closed cell can in fact also be used in retrofit.  There are low-rise closed cell products.  You may be referring to older generations of the closed cell products.  

Closed cell can be sprayed on open walls/roofs in new construction.

Open cell can also be sprayed on open walls/roofs in new construction.   (You had said this could not be done, but see your own linked videos to watch workers doing so -- heh...)

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The house, as you say, has been relying on HVAC for overcoming no insulation and vapor intrusion (although, for the vapor part of the equation, the HVAC may not be contributing much to dry-out depending on wall covering or paint type.)  In any case, however, that is without any insulation in the walls.  Since your recommended open-cell insulation will take on moisture continuously if exposure occurs, which, will occur with no vapor barrier, then that is definitely a different scenario.  With full cavity open cell insulation with no vapor control, it's entirely possible that the HVAC will be unable to provide adequate dry out.

Troy does make a good point, which is to be careful not to cause additional problems with solutions.

@Jim Adrian  "Open Cell" can only go in walls that have both sheathing/drywall up."

??.......    There is a video in the link you provided showing the "Enertite" open cell spray foam being applied to open stud wall cavities.  Done all the time. 

"You can not use this on walls that have sheathing/drywall on both sides." 

I think that was the case some time ago.  There are slow / low rise spray foam products for this application. 

Sounds like you're recommending open cell without addressing vapor barrier, other than via HVAC?

@Troy Welch

Sounds like you have the interior side of the wall opened up -- not the outside.  @Christpher Schuebel makes a point you want to pay attention to -- you are in a warm climate, so you don't want to put the vapor barrier on the inside.  In your climate it goes on the outside.

Also -- when you say blown-in insulation, you may be thinking about a type different from what @Jim Adrian is suggesting when you mention it "getting damp and causing other problems".  If you go with closed-cell spray foam -- it's essentially in its own category -- and you could in fact kill two birds with one stone, working from the inside of the wall assembly.  This type of insulation gives you about R6 per inch, as has the great added benefit of acting as a vapor barrier.  No moisture in cavity.

From OP:

owners wanted $74,000

average houses in the area are worth 90-95K based off the agents words and my research

I was estimating at least 8-10K worth of work based off my experience

the home would rent for $750.00 a month with no issues

offer at 60,000

Curious -- what are the thoughts on the deal itself, as presented...? Doesn't seem very profitable as a rental.  As a flip the numbers seem potentially better, but to me they still seem pretty skinny....?  

@James Wise

" I don't know why this thread has had so much emphasis on having the buyer explain their numbers or criteria to the agent. Investors nobody cares about your numbers. Nobody cares about your criteria. The ONLY thing that matters is supply & demand. The properties are going to sell for what the market is dictating that they will sell for. It is irrelevant to the seller & an agent how or why you have determined what you think the sales price should be. The only thing that matters is what the actual sale price will be, and this is based on market demand. This goes up and goes down. The market is a moving target."

Makes sense.  Goes along with @Russell Brazil 's comment about forcing criteria upon a property.

I've not seen realtors balk much about low offers on multifamily investment properties -- there are always a lot or reasons why low offers are made and accepted, and it's an expected part of that market. But an SFR is most often part of the mainstream real estate market -- i.e., the folks that own / want to buy / want to sell one house that they live in or will live in. Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but there are far fewer reasons (often no reasons) for owners in the SFR market to accept lowballs from an investor -- despite the finest of highly logical ARV calculations in hand; there are typically a trail of mainstream buyers who'll show up sooner or later to pay the mainstream SFR market ask price, minus just a few percent.

I think that most realtors understand the difference in markets, and that "crossing the streams" -- i.e., lowballs on typical neighborhood SFR's -- can be a waste of time.

@Melinda Miller -- 

A radiant barrier can be a great part of a total assembly, but it doesn't take the place of insulation.

Also, the height of the ceiling directly below the peak is not quite what the code is addressing.

The code provision I've mentioned works like this:  Take the floor space you'd want to create in your attic -- maybe use  masking tape to mark the perimeter of the area.  That is the new floor space you intend to create.  Now, if you were to take a tape measure and measure vertically from the floor to the ceiling at various points within that space, some areas close to the center will approach your 7'-6" height, while other areas out toward the exterior walls will be much less.  The code is saying that at least half of the total area you've taped off must be at 7'-0" or higher. 

You could also cut a stick of wood 7'-0" long -- then move the stick around in your attic space to get a quick feel for how much floor area might have a 7'-0" ceiling clearance available.  As an example, if you found that there is 200 SF of space with at least a 7'-0" ceiling height, then the code is saying  that you could have an additional 200 SF of floor space with a ceiling height less than 7 feet, for a total of 400 SF of living space, in this example.

All that said, with the peak heights you're mentioning, I'm guessing you don't have the ceiling height available to meet code for living space.

Hi Melinda,

I thought the duplicate thread mentioned 2x4 rafters -- so 2x8s, which as other have mentioned would be more typical.

OK.  Well, a full 8" depth (and the older lumber might very well be) could pretty much get you there for R-value.  However, and still as before, the exposed existing structure aesthetic would be gone.  I'm assuming you liked seeing not only the rafters, but the sheathing boards as well, which, with any insulation solution on the underside of the roof, gets completely covered.

Some other points mentioned, but to stick with what info you are giving us -- the 7' you mention -- to be clear, is that at the high point down the center along the roof peak?  Hopefully I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, and you have higher ceilings than that.  Per code for a sloped ceiling, you need 7 feet min. over not less than 50% of the floor space.  

^ That is incorrect.

@Melinda Miller

Looks like I might have a 2-season bonus room on my hands. Oh well. Thanks anyway.

Best,

Melinda

Hi Melinda:  this quote of yours came from the other duplicate thread to this one.

As I mentioned in my post above, getting the exposed existing structure aesthetic won't be practical.  But exposed existing structure with adequate insulation is not necessarily your only path to usable space in your attic.

On the other end of the spectrum, you can always plan on a typical gyp board ceiling, as @Bryce Lee has suggested.  Which, can work out very well.  Given the age of the house, your rafters are probably 2x4s (they'd be the old school actual full size 2x4's, but still too skinny), so you would likely need to add some furring thickness to get up to code R-values.  (The other thread has some incorrect R-value recommendations.)  Given the additional thickness required, you may also need some additional structural framing -- different can of worms, but this is often very doable.  

If I were doing this, I would definitely go with an air-impermeable spray foam -- sprayed tight to the underside of the roof sheathing to the thickness required to get the code R-value.  No further need for further vapor diffusion resistance.  No need for venting.  Done.

@Kristen Buckley

Hi Kristen -- I can't zoom in very close, but your work appears to be very good.

What comments do you get as to durability of the painted cabinet surfaces over the long term?