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All Forum Posts by: Jamie M.

Jamie M. has started 5 posts and replied 16 times.

Post: San Francisco SFH: Rent or Sell?

Jamie M.Posted
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 16
  • Votes 2
Originally posted by @Ariel Smith:

@Jamie M. Never mind just realized you are in SF so subject to the 90 day maximum for non primary residence!

 yep, would be sweet, but not in SF!! :)

Post: San Francisco SFH: Rent or Sell?

Jamie M.Posted
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 16
  • Votes 2
Originally posted by @Katrina Razavi:

Quick question @Jamie M. -- were you using Airbnb for your short term rental? If so, I'd love to connect and hear how you're experience was. I'm considering that as an option.

 just sent you a connection - happy to discuss my experience

Originally posted by @Amit M.:

first question I have is if your cottage is legal (possibly legal non conforming status.)  if it's not legal, the city now allows for legalizing "illegal inlaws."  Doing that would add value, as you'd get credit for the cottage's sq ft- when it's not legal, the value PSF is much lower. 

The main thing you need to wrap your head around is being a LL in SF (not for the faint of heart, but very rewarding...if you know what you are doing.). Be advised that even if you keep the cottage vacant, it doesn't matter. Even if it considered an illegal structure, it doesn't matter. The SF rent board still considers your property to technically be 2 units, and thus subject to rent control. HOWEVER, I believe that if you rent out BOTH the cottage and the home to a single tenant, it will not be subject to RC. Eviction controls still apply, but you can raise rent to market levels, and are not bound by the city's percent allowances. I'd check with an attorney on that. There are several well know offices that deal with this: Zacks or Gelmans office are two.  Don't let them scare you off however. You just need to be informed if you can avoid full RC by renting both to the same tenant. Also remember that the people who will be spending $7-8k on rent aren't exactly poor. I doubt they will need to rely on RC to squat your unit for 10-20 years. Most likely it'll be a successful family either saving money to buy or who plans to leave the city in a few years anyways. When renting I'd also screen out any tenant that looks like they want to stay years on end. Focus on upwardly mobile tenants that are either saving money to buy themselves, or that only plan to stay in SF a limited amount of time. So practically speaking you can minimize the adverse effects of RC by renting smart. All LL's in the city with half a brain think this way, which is why suboptimal tenants have a very hard time getting accepted. 

Now for the larger picture, keeping that home could be your retirement!  I'll bet that your 401k will seam like peanuts compared to this 20+ years from now. You have a blue chip asset, locked in low prop 13 prop taxes, I assume a great interest rate that's fixed, you get to depreciate the asset and have other write offs, pay down the principal, plus you'll cash flow- even more if you rent out the cottage. But of course future appreciation is the real killer here, as we're talking literally millions over the next 10-20 years. This shouldn't be hard to manage as you live nearby. It's a great intro to being an SF LL. Also look at small property owners (sposfi), they have an informative newsletter and all kinds of contacts. SF apartment association has a monthly mag free online too which is helpful. Good luck!

 @amin - thank you!  This is helpful.  The in-law unit is a legal Accessory Unit.  This makes it part of the main structure from a legal perspective.  It seems that I need to dig on this issue and will seek out some expert advice.  Thanks again!

Post: San Francisco SFH: Rent or Sell?

Jamie M.Posted
  • San Francisco, CA
  • Posts 16
  • Votes 2

Hi!  I posted my situation in a general forum, but given that there are nuances in my decision specific to the SF market (and regulations) I thought I'd post here too:

 https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/451...

The in-law cottage is an accessory unit, which I believe prevents a rent control situation, but expert thoughts welcome!

Originally posted by @Andreas Ernst:

Hi Jamie, in my opinion your are asking the right questions. For full disclosure I am a real estate investor and Realtor and I am having the exact same conversation with many of my clients. While at the end it all comes down to your specific goals and objectives there are a couple of things I encourage my clients to think about:

1) Appreciation potential: Historically speaking appreciation has been very strong in San Francisco

2) Return: $7.5-$8k gross per month for a $2.3M home is very low if income is important to you.

3) Tenant rights: Tenant rights in SF are very strong. A SFH with an in-law unit when rented out usually counts as 2-unit building which mean rent control. I'd be extremely careful with that since this can have a huge impact on your property value. More info: https://www.sftu.org/rentcontrol/

4) Taxes: As David has pointed out already, if you lived in the home as your primary residence for 2 of the last 5 years and sell, then up to $500k capital gains for married couples can be  tax free. For investment properties you might be able to do a 1031 exchange in the future. 

Hope this helps?! I'd be happy to introduce you to a good landlord attorney and real estate tax advisor if you like..

 Thank you @andreas.  This is very helpful.  On #3 - this has been my biggest concern, and the reason that I would exclude the cottage and keep vacant.  It seems like there is much more risk and nuance in this particular scenario.  Would love a landlord attorney recommendation!

New to this group, thought I'd post my current situation and see if others have opinions on it...  

My wife and I bought our first "starter" home in San Francisco (Eureka Valley - in between Castro and Noe Valley) 4 years ago.  It is on the smaller side - 3BR, 2BA, 1,600 sq ft.  It also has a lot of history: the original structure was an earthquake shelter built in 1906.  There is also a small in-law cottage in the backyard and the far edge of the property.  This was a great unintended and unexpected house hack that we fell into (more on that in a minute).  The house was completely renovated in 2011 and has nice, high-end finishes.  Not the best, but very good for sure.  There are flaws: no garage (although surprisingly easy street parking for SF - we park 2 cars in front of the house daily), small for the price point, busy street but very quiet backyard and deep lot.

A growing family led us to purchase a larger home about a mile away recently.  So now I'm going back-and-forth between keeping the current house and renting it, or selling into a VERY hot market, both in San Francisco, as well as our specific neighborhood.

More on the house hack that I fell into: I didn't think much of the in-law unit when we bought the house, but decided to list it for short-term rental.  I grossed ~$60k per year on the short-term rental unit, which was a complete surprise to me, which over 4 years put us in a better position to upgrade our primary home.  This may factor into a buyers willingness to pay...

So a bit of the numbers: we bought the house for ~$1.5mm, currently have ~$1.15mm mortgage.  Appreciation has been very strong, and based on recent comps I think we could see as much as $2.3mm.  Note there were 10 offers on the house when we bought it, and it sold for almost 20% above asking, neither the 10 offers nor the 20% above ask is unusual for San Francisco (the house we just bought had almost exact dynamic).

Rental comps are hard to come by for our neighborhood, but I think I could rent it for ~7.5k, maybe  up to $8.5k per month.  The short-term in-law cottage rental goes away of course, and I'd likely exclude this from the rental anyway and keep it vacant (could be used as a stop-gap between renters).  The net result is a strong cash-flow profile.  

The pro-case for selling would be to roll the equity from this house into our new house and reduce the monthly mortgage and rebuild our savings and investments (which we depleted to make this move).  Keeping the house would put the majority of our net worth into real estate.  But I'm eager to maintain, and build, my second revenue stream.  Selling the house takes that stream away entirely, for now.  But a sale would be into a super strong SF housing market, with far more demand than supply.  At least right now...  SF rental laws are extremely tenant friendly - something to consider as I have zero experience being a landlord to long-term tenants.

The con-case for selling is that they aren't making more land in one of the most desired neighborhoods.  Despite the house's few flaws, it would be snapped up in a matter of days in the current frothy market.  I don't really see that changing - maybe leveling off (famous last words!).  I do not expect anywhere near the level of appreciation we have seen in the last 4 years.  My expectation is it would stay flat for a while.  2008-2010 in SF was flat, for comparison.

Without experience as a landlord, I suspect that there are nuances of renting homes vs. apartments and at this price point that I don't know what I don't know, and I'd be open to hearing any feedback...