Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Joyce A Debrah

Joyce A Debrah has started 2 posts and replied 8 times.

Post: Hello and looking forward to this experience

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10

Thank you everyone! This exciting.  I am narrowing down my areas for investing.  Likely, Indiana, Ohio and/or Missouri to start.  I am still doing my research but home to nail that down in the next 30 days.  I'd also like to consider Peoria, IL but I understand that IL is not as landlord friendly as the other states I mentioned.

What are 3 words of wisdom you'd offer in terms of preparing to be an Out of State investor?

Post: Syndicate vs. BRRR

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10
Quote from @Ian Ippolito:
Quote from @Joyce A Debrah:
Quote from @Ian Ippolito:
Quote from @Joyce A Debrah:

I am weighing the option of starting my real estate investment strategy in a RE Syndicate OR in 2-5 unit rental units. If you had to chose where to invest first, which of these two strategies would you chose and why?  My goal is to generate cash flow monthly and increase my personal net worth.  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. :-)

Joyce, I invest in both direct real estate (via residential rentals) and syndication/crowdfunding passive investments. In my opinion, both have their pros and cons and neither is 100% superior to the other. And I feel the ideal portfolio can benefit from the diversification of both.

I feel directly owned properties are great because they give me maximum control and the ability to tweak them exactly how I want. So for example I'm very conservative and don't want any debt on them because I feel this hardens them in case of a severe recession. That's unusual and it would be very difficult to find a passive investment like that.

Also direct control means I know exactly what's going on. And, for those people who have more time than money, they can put in sweat equity into directly owned real estate. This will increase the return above what can be obtained on a passive investment.

The flipside of having the power to control everything is that it can be alot of work (and a full-time job if a person is putting in sweat equity). Not everyone wants that or is willing to put up with that. It also requires gaining a level of sophistication and knowledge that not everyone has the time, inclination or ability to do. And someone jumping into this as a complete newbie can expect that they have a decent chance of making some expensive newbie mistakes.

On the other hand, I feel one of the main advantages of passive investments (via syndication/crowdfunding) is that I can hire a manager who has years more experience than I can ever hope to obtain myself. And once I finish the due diligence, my work is done: it's completely passive. Also, rather than taking a large amount of money and investing into one single directly owned property, I can split it up into much smaller chunks across many different passive investments. This gives much better diversification protection across geographies, asset types, strategies, investment subclasses etc. versus putting all the eggs into one basket.

The downside is that it's not for everyone, and a person has to be comfortable with turning over control to someone else. That means learning how to vet a manager. Not everyone has the time and ability to do that and not everyone feels comfortable turning over control. So I feel it's not a fit for everyone. Also there is a management fee to pay for all of the above. So someone who is looking purely to maximize potential return (and has unlimited time) is unlikely to find this a good fit.

Turnkey operators are kind of in-between. However I would not consider them to be truly passive because they do not put any skin into the game like a good passive investment does (via a sizable coinvestment). This coinvestment is what mitigates the risk of the other party taking risks that could be a detriment to the investor. Turnkey operators don't work like that and they are more like a broker collecting a fee for their work (regardless of the long-term performance). So they are financially misaligned on long-term performance (and I think this is why there are so many people who have had bad turnkey experiences)

And, as someone who has done lots of rehabs directly myself, I have seen hundreds of ways that turnkey operator could take shortcuts (to the detriment of the investor but beneficial to their bottom line) which investor could never detect (or not until years later when it's too late). So personally I don't trust reviews from investors saying there turnkey operator is great (because really they have no way of knowing). And personally I cannot pull the trigger on a turnkey operator. However there are other investors who feel very differently and love turnkey operators.

Hope this helps.
Yes. It does. Thank you for your thorough response. My biggest fear with the syndicate is the length of the and lack of control. If I could find a syndicate that pays dividends sooner with shorter terms I might consider it but I think I have decided to pass on the one I waa considering. 

You're welcome. Are you an accredited investor? If so, there are syndications/crowdfunding deals available that have lockups that span anywhere from as short as a 1 year lockup to 7-10 years and more. Distributions also vary alot but often are quarterly.


I am not. 

Post: Syndicate vs. BRRR

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10
Quote from @Ian Ippolito:
Quote from @Joyce A Debrah:

I am weighing the option of starting my real estate investment strategy in a RE Syndicate OR in 2-5 unit rental units. If you had to chose where to invest first, which of these two strategies would you chose and why?  My goal is to generate cash flow monthly and increase my personal net worth.  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. :-)

Joyce, I invest in both direct real estate (via residential rentals) and syndication/crowdfunding passive investments. In my opinion, both have their pros and cons and neither is 100% superior to the other. And I feel the ideal portfolio can benefit from the diversification of both.

I feel directly owned properties are great because they give me maximum control and the ability to tweak them exactly how I want. So for example I'm very conservative and don't want any debt on them because I feel this hardens them in case of a severe recession. That's unusual and it would be very difficult to find a passive investment like that.

Also direct control means I know exactly what's going on. And, for those people who have more time than money, they can put in sweat equity into directly owned real estate. This will increase the return above what can be obtained on a passive investment.

The flipside of having the power to control everything is that it can be alot of work (and a full-time job if a person is putting in sweat equity). Not everyone wants that or is willing to put up with that. It also requires gaining a level of sophistication and knowledge that not everyone has the time, inclination or ability to do. And someone jumping into this as a complete newbie can expect that they have a decent chance of making some expensive newbie mistakes.

On the other hand, I feel one of the main advantages of passive investments (via syndication/crowdfunding) is that I can hire a manager who has years more experience than I can ever hope to obtain myself. And once I finish the due diligence, my work is done: it's completely passive. Also, rather than taking a large amount of money and investing into one single directly owned property, I can split it up into much smaller chunks across many different passive investments. This gives much better diversification protection across geographies, asset types, strategies, investment subclasses etc. versus putting all the eggs into one basket.

The downside is that it's not for everyone, and a person has to be comfortable with turning over control to someone else. That means learning how to vet a manager. Not everyone has the time and ability to do that and not everyone feels comfortable turning over control. So I feel it's not a fit for everyone. Also there is a management fee to pay for all of the above. So someone who is looking purely to maximize potential return (and has unlimited time) is unlikely to find this a good fit.

Turnkey operators are kind of in-between. However I would not consider them to be truly passive because they do not put any skin into the game like a good passive investment does (via a sizable coinvestment). This coinvestment is what mitigates the risk of the other party taking risks that could be a detriment to the investor. Turnkey operators don't work like that and they are more like a broker collecting a fee for their work (regardless of the long-term performance). So they are financially misaligned on long-term performance (and I think this is why there are so many people who have had bad turnkey experiences)

And, as someone who has done lots of rehabs directly myself, I have seen hundreds of ways that turnkey operator could take shortcuts (to the detriment of the investor but beneficial to their bottom line) which investor could never detect (or not until years later when it's too late). So personally I don't trust reviews from investors saying there turnkey operator is great (because really they have no way of knowing). And personally I cannot pull the trigger on a turnkey operator. However there are other investors who feel very differently and love turnkey operators.

Hope this helps.
Yes. It does. Thank you for your thorough response. My biggest fear with the syndicate is the length of the and lack of control. If I could find a syndicate that pays dividends sooner with shorter terms I might consider it but I think I have decided to pass on the one I waa considering. 

Post: Syndicate vs. BRRR

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10
Quote from @Randall Alan:
Quote from @Joyce A Debrah:

I am weighing the option of starting my real estate investment strategy in a RE Syndicate OR in 2-5 unit rental units. If you had to chose where to invest first, which of these two strategies would you chose and why?  My goal is to generate cash flow monthly and increase my personal net worth.  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. :-)

@Joyce A Debrah

Hi Joyce,

I suppose part of your question rests in how much of a roll you want to take on in your real estate investments. 

My wife and I self manage 37 rentals as our full time job.  So I would tell you that 2-5 rentals is a piece of cake to manage - even if working full time (we kept 2 corporate jobs until we were up to 20 rental units.)

The other thing I would tell you is that there are MAJOR control differences between being a limited partner in a syndication - where you are more akin to a passenger on the bus which is your investment, versus full control of everything when managing your own rentals.  
Another thing to realize is there are more (uncontrollable) risks associated with syndications.  There have been a number of syndications that have quit paying dividends as of late because they were tied into variable interest rate financing, and as the Fed raised rates there wasn’t enough money left over to pay dividends.  There was one instance discussed in the forums with a syndicator called Norada (you can search the forums for that name) where they not only stopped paying dividends, but also converted everyone’s capital to an equity position - which is code for “We don’t plan to give your money back unless we can survive to eventually sell the building.”  So the moral to this story is that as a “passenger on the bus” you incur certain risks that are less likely when you are in full control of your investments like rentals.  Rentals can also have risks, but they are all under your control …. What you pay for the property, what you rent it for, who the tenants will be, etc.  if you overpay you may not be able to produce cash flow, for instance. 

So my vote is for rentals.  Buy one and see if you like managing it.  If you do, buy another one.


All the best!

Randy


 Great advice. I will definitely try one!

Post: Syndicate vs. BRRR

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Joyce A Debrah

Do

You want to be passive or active?

If you invest in a syndicate all the work is done upfront as part of due diligence on the sponsor

Then you become passive

If you want to be active invest in buying a property

What I would not do is invest all my money in one syndicate deal. You should not put more than 20% of your money in any one deal - in case that deal goes bad

I was reading some posts elsewhere yesterday where people were taking out $50k advances on credit cards at 0% to invest in a syndication which went under. Not only did they lose $50k but now probably paying 24% on that $…


Can I be passively active? LOL :-)

Thanks for the response and advice. I am also wondering how syndicates are vetted? I do not want to passively lose any investment so I am certainly leaning toward rentals and BRRR.

Joyce

Post: Syndicate vs. BRRR

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10

I am weighing the option of starting my real estate investment strategy in a RE Syndicate OR in 2-5 unit rental units. If you had to chose where to invest first, which of these two strategies would you chose and why?  My goal is to generate cash flow monthly and increase my personal net worth.  Thanks for your thoughtful responses. :-)

Post: Hello and looking forward to this experience

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10

Hello all, 

My name is Joyce and I am ready to get into the world of real estate.  I have heard about BP for YEARS.  I'm looking forward to learning as much as I can as I grow in my experience with real estate investing. 

JD

Post: Maybe a dumb question since it's so basic but I'll still ask it.

Joyce A Debrah
Pro Member
Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Illinois
  • Posts 9
  • Votes 10
Quote from @Lorien Rollins:

Hey Carlo, no question is dumb.

I own and self manage one LTR, the mortgage is currently in my name (I'm considering refi into trust) but I currently have all things (banking/finances, lease, etc.) run through a single member LLC.

 @Lorien Rollins What do you see as the benefit of putting your Real Estate into your trust?  Is the property your primary residence or 100% paid off?