Skip to content
×
Try PRO Free Today!
BiggerPockets Pro offers you a comprehensive suite of tools and resources
Market and Deal Finder Tools
Deal Analysis Calculators
Property Management Software
Exclusive discounts to Home Depot, RentRedi, and more
$0
7 days free
$828/yr or $69/mo when billed monthly.
$390/yr or $32.5/mo when billed annually.
7 days free. Cancel anytime.
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Joseph Fenner

Joseph Fenner has started 17 posts and replied 62 times.

Post: How do I find the best deals?

Joseph FennerPosted
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 43
Quote from @Johnny Lynum:

Hey Joseph! 

Great questions – and I love that you're fired up about finding distressed apartment deals! Here’s the quick-and-dirty lowdown to get you started:

1️⃣ Where to Look:

  • LoopNet & Crexi: Good for commercial deals, though the best ones go fast.
  • MLS (Multiple Listing Service): Access through a realtor for hidden gems.
  • Auction Sites: Think Auction.com or HUD homes for distressed properties.
  • Direct Mail Campaigns: Target landlords with older properties (especially those with code violations).

2️⃣ Systems for Finding Deals (Step-by-Step):

  1. Set Your Criteria: Market, budget, unit count, rehab level.
  2. Build a Deal Funnel: Use LoopNet, Crexi, wholesalers, auctions, and brokers.
  3. Analyze Quickly: Use a property calculator to see if it cash flows.
  4. Direct Outreach: Contact sellers or property managers directly.
  5. Get Your Network Tight: Property managers, realtors, contractors—they’ll drop the best leads.

3️⃣ What Makes a Good Deal:

  • Cash Flow Positive from Day 1.
  • Below Market Value (usually needs rehab).
  • Upside Potential: Think rent increases, better management, or refinancing options.

4️⃣ How to Become the Better/Best:

  • Study the Market Like a Hawk. Know what’s normal so you can spot what’s NOT.
  • Talk to Brokers/Connections Weekly. Stay on top of new leads.
  • Practice Deal Analysis Daily. You'll get faster and better every time!
  • Get Comfortable with Rejections: The more "no’s" you hear, the closer you get to a “yes.”

Hope this helps. 
This is a hustle – but if you stick with it, the deals WILL come. Keep pushing, learning, and networking. You got this! 💪

Thank you for this information.

Post: How do I find the best deals?

Joseph FennerPosted
  • Posts 63
  • Votes 43

My goal is to learn how to FIND the best deals particularly distressed apartment buildings that need repairs. 

What sources and websites do you guys use?

Where can I find the best deals?

What are your systems when finding deals step by step?

What are the most important factors that make a good deal? 

How can I become the best at FINDING the BEST deals?


Quote from @Carrie Matuga:

@Joseph Fenner I love your goal and how high you've set the bar. I think to accomplish this you are probably going to need to employ a couple of strategies. I'd suggest you look at BRRRR to force value and minimize downpayment. Depending on the state you are investing in and the LTC to ARV ratio (you should ideally have this be less than 70% for cushion), you can finance up to 100% of purchase and renovation (that does not mean no closing costs but it can mean no downpayment). You can also look at creative financing/subto or owner finance as an option and finally there are DSCR options that will allow you to go up to 85% of purchase (but there is a fairly severe interest rate penalty), so I'd recommend staying in the 70-80% range. With a combination of all 3, you could hit your goal and then use your cashflow to start to help you in subsequent years.

Thank you, I had idea Would I be able to finance with a bank/lender that is located in another country that has the lowest interest rate? 
Quote from @Kenneth Reimer:

@Joseph Fenner Joseph! I love the ambition. I wouldn't listen to people telling you it's unrealistic. Sounds like it's just unrealistic for them. Though, I would consider tweaking your goal. 167 properties at $500/month is $83,500 a year in cash flow and much easier to do on larger deals than aggregating smaller ones.

Instead of asking where you're going to find the money, I would be asking where you're going to find the deal(s). Further, your chances of hitting that cash flow number are much higher finding one or two great value-add apartment deals than it is finding 167 good cash-flowing single family homes (which is an oxymoron in my book...SFRs very rarely cash flow over long enough time horizons). 

When I was a young multifamily broker, my goal was to broker enough to save up the money and buy deals to retire. I was told it was a 15-20 year goal because that's how long it took others. I found a fantastic deal in year 1, bought it on the 2 year anniversary of me stepping into the brokerage's doors, and that deal now pays my partner and I about $13,000/month each. It can be done, you just have to know how and where to look.

Action Steps:
1. Educate yourself on what a good deal looks like and how to structure the capital stack.

2. Figure out who would be the right partner in your market. This is tough and it takes time, but the big investors in your area would be tickled for a young/hungry guy to bring them a fantastic off-market deal, and would most likely give you free equity if the deal was good enough (I know I would). 

3. Find the deal. Hunt for them. This takes a ton of time. Find the run-down apartment complexes in good areas. Forge relationships with the owners, and find authentic ways to create win-win scenarios in sale situations.

Is it easy? Nope. In fact, it's tremendously difficult. But the more difficult it is, the more money you can make. 

Finding the deal is the hard part, not the money.

Thank you for this information, you gave me another way to look at it. I would love to connect and talk more about this, I sent you a connection request. 

-Joseph
Quote from @Mike Klarman:

For some context Joe, your first sentence there about what you want to accomplish reads like an elementary student wishing to be the NBA MVP one day.

167 doors in 5 years, starting with 50k?

So you have not been in the trenches yet, and all I can tell you is that is not doable at all.  You need 500k and networks set up in 5 - 8 diff markets that work like an assembly line of options to be analyzed.

If you get into 30 year products from jump street your 50 will be gone in one deal. If you try and BRRRR and keep pulling out whatever you could upon refi, do you understand how long it would take to get to 167 doors? There's investors on these boards who been doing it for 20 years and they don't have 167 doors.

Look, I've seen a lot of the behind the scenes of brokering, originating, and coordinating of loans and projects.

If you want a cash flow heavy portfolio this is your strategy:

As far as SFH - the only holds are the higher value houses in desirable STR areas. Like you have a 700k house on a lake in a well to do town in Michigan let's say. STR is the way to go these days, no longer LTR. I price out so many DSCR loans. A Normal 250k - 300k house will never, ever get close to the 1% rule for rent. I mean a 300k house may have a 1.8k - 2k monthly rent. That number caps your tap potential into the equity as they'll never let you have a loan payment too close to actual rent. However, I just closed three refinances for an investor in the Pocono Mountains of PA. It has skiing in winter, hiking in spring, there's a few resorts up there as well. I have a client who has like 5 STR assets up there. Each one makes anywhere from 15k - 30k per month on STR. He has like a 7x DSCR on most. Holding these SFH, looking for the 200 - 300 cash flow is not the way to go. STR will always cash flow better for SFH, just have to be the right house in the right market.

The holds are the 2 - 4 unit buildings. Why? Well, one, I've never priced out a DSCR loan for a 2 - 4 unit building that wasn't a DSCR beast. I've seen 1.5x - 2.5x DSCR routinely when pricing out 2 - 4 unit buildings. Second, the 2 - 4 buildings fall under same program as the single family houses. Same leverage, same rates. Once you step up to 5+ leverage gets cut and rates go up.

Do some googling and calling. Look up top STR markets in US, look up "how to grow my real estate portfolio", look up "best markets in US for the BRRRR", start calling agents in markets, contractors, lenders, start feeling out who is a right fit for your team.

I've built networks in two different markets and I can tell you ppl come and go and some start well and then slack, there's lots of trial and error because ppl are good on the phone.

So you see there's so much going into this goal of yours.  Lots of trial and error and learning from mistakes, so much more capital needed than 50k, so much work to do building a drag net across 5 - 8 markets to capture opportunity then have boots on the ground to put plans in motion.  

Don't do the long term goal right now.  Stick to short term goals.  Get your 50k together, make sure your credit is right.  Once that is set, you need a cookie-cutter, inexpensive project 1.  Buy under 150k, rehab no more than 70k, the exit around 300k.  B or better neighborhood with an active sales market.  That's a standard cookie cutter deal that I have gotten 90% financing on for 1st timers.

You have to get in a market where 50k let's you play.  Don't forget there is more than the downpayment, you have closing costs, holding costs, deposit to a contractor to start work. 

I recently put two new clients from BP in their first ever bridge loans for a fix and flip in my PA network and they bought for like 180k and I got them 90% financing and between the downpayment, closing costs, holding costs and fronting the GC I partner with the deposit they will need to extend like 45k - 55k to see through a 5 month project where they will net about 30k - 40k after all taxes and expenses.  So your 50k doesn't stretch as far as you think once you start adding everything up.

Thank you for this information, it gave me a lot more clarity.

I was thinking for my first deal, I could find a property for $125,000 including down payment and use an FHA loan so I only put 3.5% down, I’ll be using less of my $50K capital which will help prevent my $50K from getting drained after down payment, closing costs, etc, let’s say $12,000 total, I’ll have $38,000 left in capital. I can than finance the rehab work let’s say $40,000? Total amount invested = $165,000 including down payment. Rent out the property, and do a cash out refinance with an estimated worth of $250,000,  I’ll be getting my initial down payment back including profit of $85,000 + remaining capital of $38,000 = $123K capital for my next property and of course depending on the market.

 Based of your experience do my numbers sound right?


How do I determine how much to invest in rehab work so I’m not investing to much to the point I’m losing money?

 
Thank you for your feedback.

Quote from @Bernard Hickson:

To reach your goal of acquiring 167 rental properties in 5 years and 10 properties in your first year, here’s how you can creatively finance those down payments without over-leveraging yourself:

1. House Hacking & Low-Down Payment Loans

You’re on track with house hacking for your first property using a low-down payment loan. For the other properties, consider conventional loans with 10%-15% down to conserve capital.

2. Seller Financing

Negotiate seller financing on some properties. This allows you to spread out down payments and use less cash upfront by having the seller finance part or all of the down payment.

3. Private Lenders & Hard Money Loans

Work with private lenders or use hard money loans to finance the acquisition and renovations. Once stabilized, you can refinance to traditional loans and use the equity to fund future down payments.

4. HELOC

Use a HELOC on your current or first property to fund down payments on additional properties without needing extra cash.

5. Partner with Investors

Form partnerships where investors provide down payments in exchange for equity or profits, allowing you to scale faster without tying up your own funds.

6. Create a Real Estate Fund

Our firm can help you establish a real estate investment fund to pool investor capital and acquire properties, which is more scalable and flexible than traditional syndications.

7. Refinance & Recycle Equity

After acquiring a few properties, refinance to pull out equity and use it for future purchases, allowing you to continuously fund new deals.

By leveraging these strategies, you can scale quickly without relying on your savings alone. Let’s discuss how we can help you create an investment fund or raise capital through an SEC-regulated offering to accelerate your real estate acquisition goals.

Definitely id be interested in discussing this, I’ll send you a DM. 
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Joseph Fenner:
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Joseph Fenner:

My goal is to acquire 167 rental properties in 5 years generating $500/month on average. 

Im starting my first year and am planning to buy 10 properties in 1 year. I’ll have $50K saved and $8,000 in credit lines. 

My question is how do I get the money for 10 down payments? I’ll have enough capital to cover 2 down payments 1: first property Under 5% because I’m house hacking. 2: And 20% for the remaining 8 properties. Let’s assume 40K down payment * 8 properties = $320,000. Is it smart to finance the down payment on top of the property? How do I get the financing? Is there another way I could accomplish this? 


 So you want to have 167 rentals(WTH did you get that number from ? ) with 50k NOT happening ,,,,,, HMM this reads like a FB post

Good luck 

Not all at once, over the spam of 5 years. $50K will not work for 167 properties I would need $5,010,000 to do that. My goal is to make 1M a year and 1M / 12 months = $83,333/month / by $500/month cash flow = 166.6 rounded up to 167. 167 Properties generating $500/month  =  $83,500/month. * 12 months = $1,002,000/year.


 Where is the admin? Let's get rid of this post, THIS IS NOT FB , 

Thank you 

What were you doing at 20? You seem jealous because I have a bigger advantage than you did. 

I also started my own business at 10 years old and made thousands, what were you doing at 10 playing with toys? 

I’d rather sound crazy asking a question, than not ask a question at all. I don’t care what people think, maybe you do that’s why you calling my post a FB post. I’m posting so I can learn, why are you posting? I think we need an admin. 

What 20 year olds are thinking about investing and taking action? I may have nothing today but I will die with everything, I’m starting from the bottom $0 I bet you had everything given to you. 

The person that is comfortable in pain will always beat the person that avoids pain. I grew up in pain it’s all I know and I feel uncomfortable when I’m not in pain. That’s why I will win I’m not a b*tch when it comes to taking risks, throw it all at me, I’ll overcome every challenge one by one. It’s get rich or die trying I don’t care what I have to do.

You should go back to Facebook that’s where you belong. Do me a favor don’t delete your posts I wanna look at them as a memory for when I make it. It would make me feel good 😎.


Have a great day and I hope you fix your mindset. 

Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Mark Cruse:

Sounds like you are feeding into pipe dreams. Anything can sound real nice on paper but reality is profound. I have no idea why in good conscience some of these experienced investors are pushing you to go for it. This is a very difficult business with dozens of moving parts that need to be managed and mitigated through expertise and ability. You have to find deals were you can get this cash flow. You have to know how to manage that property effectively to make it work. You have understand each community, culture, environment and how to screen for the right tenant. You have to have the right financing set up. You have understand appreciation and leveraging. Its very rare high end experienced investors can pull this off. I have never seen a newbie even come close. Maybe with a 10 unit multi but still, very heavy lift. If it were that easy and feasible wouldnt everyone just map out a plan like that and do it? I applaud you for coming here and at least asking but as a senior investor who wants you to win, this aint it. Start off small and learn from there. Real estate is building wealth via the long game. Its not Bitcoin of Forex. Maybe put up a post, asking everyone here who has achieved the same with the same resources you possess. 

 This has nothing to do with (your points are valid) finding deals, that's the easy part. This post is NOT reality. NOBODY is buying 167 doors with 50k. Nothing about this post is real. So, if you have 100k you can get to 2 MILL INCOME, NOT happening. Yes, a lot are responding to this in depth, not sure why as its not reality. 

"
Im starting my first year and am planning to buy 10 properties in 1 year. I’ll have $50K saved and $8,000 in credit lines. 

10 props with 50k, AGAIN not reality, 

I never said $50K will buy me 167 properties, $50K is my initial capital for my first year. It’s called reinvesting but you have to start somewhere.
Quote from @James Hamling:

Serious question @Joseph Fenner, I am curious the catalyst where you came up with this whole idea of things. 

Was there some book you read, some class or YT info you drew upon? Where did this notion come from of going from 0 too 167 properties in 5yrs???? 

So here is something I wonder if you ever considered in this venture; what if you really suck at it?       Serious. How many people set out that they want to be, say, a Dentist only to find they really hate it. And in the path of things, they switch, to say being a Pediatrist. 

I am seriously curious what posses one to think there gonna set out to be HUGE, vs setting out to start, try it on, feel things out, focus on the 1 and see where things go from there? 

When I was in HS a new English teacher came and was there for 1 month and quit, during the time he had us read Rich dad poor dad, and ever since that I become hyper fixated like a spark went off, It’s all I think about, I believe anything is possible. Also I don’t have a choice it’s real estate or nothing, financial freedom is getting achieved no matter what, I’m living the lifestyle I want and I need to retire my mom she’s 52 years old and has $2K in her retirement account. Someone has to do it and I’m the only one that is strong enough to go to war with the challenges and get it done. I’m not gonna suck I will be the best because effort beats talent, anything is possible and I will achieve my goals. I don’t have a lot of time I’m about to be 21 I need to be a millionaire by the age of 25. Real estate is very interesting to me it’s like putting together a puzzle in my brain and it’s fun. Real estate is the only option I have. I will be the greatest and nothing will stop me because I am unstoppable. I need to be the first millionaire in my family I promised it to myself, my mom is relying on me and the people that doubted me are watching me. I need to win at the highest level. I’m tired of being poor I can’t live like this for the rest of my life working a 9-5, 2 week vacation a year, horrible pay, all for 60 years of your life. That’s a waste and that is not normal This is prison and I can’t wait for the day I retire my mom it’s gonna feel amazing. She’s gonna have the best retirement and I’m gonna be living the life of my dreams. Young!
Quote from @Bob Stevens:
Quote from @Joseph Fenner:

My goal is to acquire 167 rental properties in 5 years generating $500/month on average. 

Im starting my first year and am planning to buy 10 properties in 1 year. I’ll have $50K saved and $8,000 in credit lines. 

My question is how do I get the money for 10 down payments? I’ll have enough capital to cover 2 down payments 1: first property Under 5% because I’m house hacking. 2: And 20% for the remaining 8 properties. Let’s assume 40K down payment * 8 properties = $320,000. Is it smart to finance the down payment on top of the property? How do I get the financing? Is there another way I could accomplish this? 


 So you want to have 167 rentals(WTH did you get that number from ? ) with 50k NOT happening ,,,,,, HMM this reads like a FB post

Good luck 

Not all at once, over the spam of 5 years. $50K will not work for 167 properties I would need $5,010,000 to do that. My goal is to make 1M a year and 1M / 12 months = $83,333/month / by $500/month cash flow = 166.6 rounded up to 167. 167 Properties generating $500/month  =  $83,500/month. * 12 months = $1,002,000/year.