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All Forum Posts by: Jon Whitener

Jon Whitener has started 1 posts and replied 8 times.

Post: Hello All... Aspiring REI from MI New to BP and loving it!

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

A young attorney named Jeshua Lauka has a blog about RE law in Michigan.  He was kind of enough to answer my question about this.  

My question was: Is it legal for a person to "wholesale" a property in Michigan?  Without a license?

Here's his response:

Michigan law defines real estate broker broadly

The exemptions are pretty limited:

Essentially, if you are performing these services as a primary part of your occupation, Michigan law requires you to be licensed. 

This is why I always advise clients to err on the side of safety and just get licensed- particularly in light the AG’s office

Sincerely, 
Jeshua T. Lauka

David & Wierenga, P.C.
Attorneys at Law
99 Monroe Ave. NW  Ste. 1210
Grand Rapids, MI  49503

Post: Fortune Builders 3-day Workshop???????

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

I think I should put this on here, it's specifically about the Fortune Builder's 3-day summit program:

Real-estate sales tactic skates the line

Wholesaling, or "flopping", is said to be illegal in Ohio without a license.  I'm still trying to nail down a definitive answer about my state of Michigan.  The FB Summit did not address whether it was legal or not.  You did, however, sign a release on your way in not to sue them if you got into legal trouble following their advice.

Buyer beware.

Post: Hello All... Aspiring REI from MI New to BP and loving it!

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

Here is as far as I can get without getting advice from a Michigan legal expert.  The Michigan Dept. of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs has a thick paragraph of (to me) inscrutable legalese defining who is a "real estate broker".  To wit:

I read this as closely as I could a few times and could not develop any confidence on whether or not it applies to people who want to wholesale in the way gurus and others talk about it.  The definition seems very expansive.

If I were to hazard a guess, I think it means that a wholesaler does need a license as a real estate broker.  But, I'm no attorney!  I have seen people describe ways they get around this. Namely, @Joe Villeneuve on this discussion.  But I have no idea if that's legally sound or not.

If I get to talk to a Michigan attorney with RE expertise, I will come back and let you know.

Jon

Post: Good investor friendly real estate attorney SW Michigan?

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

Damian,

This is a late reply, but online I was impressed with the real estate law blog of Jeshua Lauka.  I have no experience with him, but I always like to see someone sharing their expertise freely.  

Lauka is based in Grand Rapids.  He looks like a really young guy, but from his writings, seems very focused on the field.

Hope this helps.

Jon

Post: Hello All... Aspiring REI from MI New to BP and loving it!

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

I'll add this and more information if I find it...  It's apparently not the time in Michigan to try to skate by without a license if it's required by law.  I found this in the blog post, "Michigan AG is cracking down on fraudulent businesses, unlicensed real estate professionals"

Post: Hello All... Aspiring REI from MI New to BP and loving it!

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

As @Mindy Jensen mentioned, Ohio has indeed cracked down on the practice, at least without a broker's license.  I came upon this article in the Cincinnati Enquirer: "Real-estate sales tactic skates the line".  In it, the author says,


"Wholesaling" is sometimes called "flopping," a relative of "flipping." Here's how it works:

A homeowner is in dire straits and needs to get rid of his house. Let's say he's getting divorced and can't afford the house on a single income. A buyer swoops in and offers him less than market value.

No problem so far. But then, without putting a penny down on the house, the buyer lines up another buyer for the property, and on closing day, Buyer #2 is the one who actually pays for and takes possession of the property. The homeowner sells the property, unaware that Buyer #1 had another buyer lined up willing to pay more money, and Buyer #1 walks away with the difference, leaving the original lender with a bigger loss than needed.

According to Ohio law, no one can advertise or "assume to act as" a real estate broker or salesperson without a license.

I just attended the Fortune Builders program the article talks about, and boy was I surprised that I first needed to learn if the practice was legal in Michigan!  I'm still looking for the answer, and will follow up here if I find it soon.

Thanks to all for their questions and input!

Jon

Post: Fortune Builders 3-day Workshop???????

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

For what it's worth, I just completed the real estate insiders summit, Fortune builders' three day workshop in Romulus Michigan which is in Metro Detroit. Overall I'm glad I went. With some reservations. 

I wasn't able to attend Friday morning, but three people told me I didn't miss much. Friday afternoon was worthwhile. I should say that I am fairly brand new to real estate investing have done some reading, listening to BiggerPockets podcasts, etc. 

Generally I would break the workshop down into three roughly equal thirds. 

  • one third was motivational speaking which I liked.
  • 1/3 was useful information. 
  • And 1/3 was selling fortune builders mastery program. 

As I said, Friday afternoon was worthwhile; I took a lot of notes. All day Saturday was a waste of my time. All they did was talk about the various features of Fortune Builders system once you buy in. You can buy in at three levels, from $20,000 to 34 or $35,000. So Saturday sucked and I was angry about it.

Sunday was much better with a lot of information. The presenter spent significant time on exotic deals that were nowhere near what I was interested in at this point, but the day was still worthwhile.  

The presenter's name was Gerald Martin, and he was excellent. If he breaks out to become  a motivational speaker on his own, I would probably pay to see him.

So yes one day (Saturday) was a waste of my time, but overall I'm glad I went. He spent a lot of time teaching the "make money"/success mindset and getting over your fear, which was helpful to me. 

They passed out cards for people to fill out so they could be interviewed for the very expensive Mastery Program. I simply didn't fill out my card so they didn't call me for that. So I can say that besides the waste of an entire day talking about the features of their paid system, the overall sales was not a very hard pitch. In other words you didn't have anyone trying to corner you into doing something you weren't comfortable with.

At the end, on the survey, they asked what I thought the value of the summit was. I said it was about $150, less than the 197 I paid. That's all due to the wasteful Saturday. Also my wife was not able to come so it was just me. So I'm not entirely unhappy that I went. I expected the sales pitches so I wasn't too surprised. I got some solid information and perspective for a real estate beginner.

Oh and one more thing about the Saturday when they went over all the features of their online fortune builders system that you can buy into. Although they didn't give me any information that I can use (because I'm not going to buy that system), it was interesting to see all the things that their system does. It gave me a good sense of all the functions I will need to tend to one way or another. It really is an impressive system if it works as well as it was presented.

Hope this helps.

Jon

Post: Total newbies in Metro Detroit

Jon WhitenerPosted
  • Web developer, marketing, video production
  • Farmington Hills, MI
  • Posts 8
  • Votes 5

Hello everyone, 

My wife and I are looking to start wholesaling as a beginning in real estate investing. We are in the northwest suburbs of Detroit, namely Farmington Hills in Oakland County.

I just finished the three-day Fortune Builders "real estate insiders summit" this weekend. I will post elsewhere my review of it. 

Best of luck to everyone here! 

Jon