Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Jon Leidgen

Jon Leidgen has started 1 posts and replied 3 times.

Originally posted by @Steve B.:

@Tyler Kress how do you “own FedEx routes”? Is he in the mafia?

Also you have 10k to invest. I’m curious how you break into commercial reality with that?unless it’s that Warehouse I saw in flint, Michigan. What’s his erudite advice?

 Actually I have a good friend who owns Fed Ex routes and it is a very lucrative industry. It comes with its struggles such as your employees are truck drivers that think the owner is “the man” and if the rout doesn’t get completed you don’t get paid and you can lose your rights to the route if it happens often enough. 

Long story short it is a real thing and a full time gig. 

Originally posted by @Scott Smith:

Hi @Jon Leidgen,

Great question! It really depends on your current situation as well as your location. As @Justin Delahoyde mentioned aboove, the costs for an LLC can vary depending on where you live. There are tools that can be used to work around that, such as Delaware Statutory Trust, but then you start shelling out more money. It comes down to finding the best level of protection that fits your budget.

When I sit down with clients, I always discuss (1) their personal assets, and (2) what their current investments portfolio and other business ventures are before discussing (3) their future goals. Each of these variables will dramatically change the advice I give the individual asking me this question. Generally though, I break it down into the "five pillars" of protecting your assets.

The first pillar is avoiding unnecessary and risky activities (don't drink and drive, insurance generally won’t cover your poor decisions) and take good care of your investments(maintain your property, etc) - these simple steps will help you prevent lawsuits before they even occur.

The second pillar is a good insurance policy as that cover the majority of your exposure. However, insurance is limited because it only protects you from one type of liability: accidents/negligence. Insurance doesn’t protect you from any part of the sale or acquisition of a property (e.x. Somebody wanting to sue for you backing out of a bad deal or accusing you of selling them a property with defects like unknown termite damage). Insurance also doesn’t protect you from misunderstandings, especially those made in writing and email. What happens in these misunderstandings is that something goes wrong either in the sale or after, and then they sue you for some statement you made that they “misunderstood”. That lawsuit is a claim for fraud, and that’s what fraud typically is...a misunderstanding and someone being “injured” and wanting to hold the other responsible for it. Insurance never protects you from these kinds of claims and they happen all the time.

The third pillar applies after you have good insurance You need to protect yourself from what insurance doesn't cover by compartmentalizing your assets. Compartmentalization means that if something happens to one property, people suing can't touch you or the other properties. You should use either LLC's (the old and expensive way) or a Series LLC (the new and more cost/time effective way). No matter where you live or where you own assets, I personally recommend the Series LLC to be a great tool for the individual investor who is planning to expand their operation, as it allows for you to scale infinitely for FREE. If you're interested in using an LLC, this article also further explains the advantages of a Series.

The fourth pillar is somewhat similar - you want to separate your operations from your assets. One company owns everything and does nothing (this is your SLLC a/k/a "asset holding company") and a completely separate company handles all of your operations (this is a traditional LLC a/k/a "operating company") For the operating company which serves as your face to the world and through which you do all your business, you establish a Traditional LLC to carry out the operations of your investments. The operating company takes on all of the liability that would otherwise blow back on you including: paying property management, paying contractors, collecting rent, marketing, etc.

The fifth pillar is owning everything anonymously. If people don't know that you have assets, then they are less likely to sue because there's no use in suing people that qualify for food stamps. This anonymity can be accomplished for free by using land trusts to own your companies as well as the assets. Trusts create this anonymity by removing your name from public record. Even if they can see you used to own a property, when properly transferred it will look like it was sold to investors. If they somehow guess you are the owner though, it still doesn't matter because you would not be the owner. The land trust and the LLC are the owner of the asset/real estate, so even in the scenario that potential litigants guess, they would guess wrong.

So with my excessive answer I would leave you with this: you get more protection from multiple LLCs (when established and operated correctly) holding the different assets, but it also costs more. At that point it comes down to risk management and your own tolerance for legal exposure. 

 Thank you for such an in-depth response. It definitely gives me multiple things to think about and discuss further. I always believe you have to surround yourself with the right people but at the same time you need to be educated. You have given me several things to look into and discuss further as time comes. 

I appreciate you spending the time on going that in depth.. I know it was time consuming. 

Do you form a new LLC/entity with each new property you buy or do you have one LLC/entity holding them all?