All Forum Posts by: Jon D.

Some of this list is national lenders and a lot of this list is super regional (i.e. the bank has a footprint that stretches over 5 states).

There are options in that list (assuming they're not pulling their offerings the last few weeks) that are available in North Carolina.

I'll also point out what is maybe one of the best selling points of this model. **Higher tax efficiency.

If I pay hourly to a realtor all of those expenses should be tax deductible as we go. The rebate comes back as tax free. I'm near 95% sure (based on all similar circumstances) that the rebate is actually considered a reduction in purchase price from a tax perspective. That means full ordinary income deductibility for the realtor costs against a slightly higher deferred capital gain down the road. Given the desirability of cost segregation studies in investment property tax planning clearly this is desirable outcome.

So even if the investor spends 110% of the what the normal commission would be in hourly charges, said investor still nets out better than if they did it the current method.

@James Hamling 

I'm guessing no matter what I said, the impression any realtor would get is... "This person is proposing a different payment structure, clearly the only reason why he'd do that is because he thinks we get paid too much... so screw him."

I think if you actually read through each of my comments I've tried hard to dispell that as a sole or even a primary motivation. 

I get the response of the top producers who are already killing it financially with the current model going...

"I'm already killing it so it isn't broken. Too much hassle to take on a client who is set up differently"

That said I think there have been a few that have chimed in that clearly from their bad response are probably bad/low producing realtors who came to defend the system that is helping keep them poor by giving themselves no method of price or method differentiation like all other industries.

You're so hysterical about what this could mean to your precious sh***y business model hat you have to mislead and engage in falsehoods to prove a point.

A) If I got my way on this last one I'd be paying more (not less) and would still be working with the same realtor and not have to find a new one because of how badly designed the commission system is.

B) Not in a million years would I suggest $50 an hour. That is just made up BS.

C) Let's even slightly edit your analogy (which still doesn't fit, but at least maybe closer to the reality). Let's say a job is 10 hours long and someone decides they want to do 5 hours of it themselves and hire out 5 hours. Normally it's bid at $1,500 for the 10 hours (which equates to $150 an hour). They then offer the $200 an hour for 5 hours ($1,000 total). In theory everyone should be happy. The person that is doing work may get less in total, but a higher hourly rate. Also if it's bid on an hourly basis and not a project basis... if the project takes longer than anticipated doing the work then the person doing it continues to make more instead of pouting mid project (which is sort of the closest example to where I'm at).

I'm wondering if this is the worst comment of the whole thread.

 Now I'm proposing that all realtors do this, eh? Are you always this dishonest and loaded with straw men with your clients?

Clearly I'm suggesting no such thing. Also clearly it would never be a large part of the market because most regular buyers would refuse to pay for showings if there were any realtors out there willing to do showings for a commission percentage so the commission model would never die for that reason.

That said, its legitimate for there to be a small market of time based payment realtors for those who are after that (and are willing to pay high enough hourly rates for those people to make a great living to do it).

Practically all of the options you listed have structures of fixed fee, retainer, contingency, and time based payment. I'm not asking for them for a discount when I choose 1 payment type over another.

Let me give you an analogy:
-High priced attorneys just charge $350-$800 an hour to compensate them for the training, overhead costs, etc. and not all of it goes into their pocket either hence why its high enough to cover those extra items.

I feel like the structure is prone to incentivize agents to not be honest with me about many things in the transaction; my problem isn't with how much they make (I actually believe most realtors don't make enough and the market is oversaturated with them largely because of how many realtors will cart around time wasters for no money). Others may have a different opinion as me, but to the extent you can sympathize at all with my view that the structure is horribly conflicted relative to other options... me posting about trying to find this is a perfectly legitimate thing for this forum. Furthermore, an endless parade of realtors basically engaging in extreme straw men or outright lies to try to act like this isn't a legitimate thing to seek out is just even more evidence why this should be talked about and considered.

A very dishonest industry proving again why its dishonest post by post (not that it doesn't deserve high income).

The straw men is endless. Now we're apparently talking about $50 an hour. Some brokerage houses don't allow it (duh). 

You and me both know that plenty of realtors with a lot of business will still rebate since either they get that extra business or they don't. Its hard to walk away from $4,000+ for 5 hours of work no matter how good you are if you have really any loose time in your schedule (which again most honest agents would agree that they typically have a bit of loose time if they aren't carting around tons of 4 month shoppers).

And since many of these comments are loaded with dishonesty, half truths at best, severely biased answers, etc. all you're proving is that a lot of full commission brokers start out their relationships answering questions like these from a completely dishonest perspective. How should anyone trust you when the start of your relationship with them is basically built on lies and a lack of candor with your client? I guess you prefer to go back to stupid clients who can't tell when you're lying to them... please be my guest.

Since folks are bringing up pocket listings. I didn't feel I needed to write this, but there are a lot of pocket listings in my market and I'd make clear to anyone I'm working with that I'm paying full commission for any pocket listing. But MLS stuff I source... is what we're talking here.
 

Jon,

I'm sorry, but the information you're putting out there in this post is just over the top and with the nature of my work I know tax laws/contractor vs. W2 rules and tests better than most. There is zero chance than a realtor in any state billing hourly would risk W2 status.

While there are plenty of large brokerage houses that have commission splits like you mention and therefore have rules in place to protect their split... you and me both know there are plenty that don't.

Extremist straw man arguments to try to defend an idea that you can't really defend any other way doesn't help anyone nor further better understanding on a forum like this (where people come to learn)