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All Forum Posts by: John Lim

John Lim has started 3 posts and replied 11 times.

Hi everyone - 

We're back! After great feedback and reception from our interviews with kitchen consultants and construction builders, I've decided to interview a hotel developer for a Q&A to answer any questions you have!

I know there is already a lot of attention focused on multifamily and apartment style investments on BP, so I wanted to focus on hotels since it might be a little less familiar to people new to the real estate game. 

That being said, I need your help - I want to open up the opportunity to all of you to see if you have any questions you might want to ask a hotel developer. As I've done before, I'm hoping to incorporate your questions into my blog here on BiggerPockets. If you have a question that you would like to ask, let me know. 

I'm already thinking of a few questions, including:

  • How you even start with commercial and hotel real estate?
  • What benefits are there investing with a REIT versus investing directly in a single hotel?
  • Are there differences in investing with different hotel brands (i.e. a Red Roof Inn versus a Hilton versus a Holiday Inn asset)?

Of course, our developer specializes in hotels, but feel free to ask any questions that might have to do with other commercial property classes! Thanks - looking forward to hearing from all of you!

John

Originally posted by @Richard Z.:

Can you ask what's the cost difference to build a hotel comparing to condo/apartment? In terms of $/sqft. 

This comparison is a little difficult to do, since hotels and apartments have significantly different structures (i.e. you typically don't see people making 100-room apartments or condos). Whereas each apartment would need its own kitchen, living room, etc, hotels typically don't build out a living room or kitchen for each room (with the exception of some extended stay hotels). 

Definitely check out the blog post for a more nuanced answer, but the gist of it is that from a construction standpoint, the costs are fairly equivalent assuming all things are equal between hotels and apartments. However, scale and the ability to regularly pull in multiple guests and revenue streams in a month in a hotel distinguishes it from an apartment or condo. Overall, apartments and condos could be seen as easier to construct because of size, but the revenue they could pull in is also limited.

Originally posted by @Pavan Sandhu:

Can you ask him/her if there are any pre fabricated hotel models he's seen?

I know that modular and paneling construction are becoming more popular, especially since hotel buildings benefit specifically from same-hotel-room modular construction. We are even seeing some hotels that are using pre-fabricated models. However, from the builder's experience, he notes that there are still a lot of restrictions on building through modular construction, specifically in cities and large urban areas. Modular construction is more common in rural regions. 

However, paneling - which is a similar concept that deals with creating more of the skeletal structure of the hotel - is much more commonplace, and builders use this pretty regularly. Instead of building entire rooms off site, they are building just the wall frames, for example. Paneling still carries some of the benefits of modular construction without the same resistance that modular methods face. 

Hi all! Thank you for all your questions! I'll reply to each of you individually, but if you would like to check out the full blog posts, they are right here on BiggerPockets! 

Part 1 | Skilled Labor and Value Engineering

Part 2 | Trends in Construction and Modular/Paneling Construction

Post: Construction Builder Interview - What do you want to know?

John LimPosted
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 6

Hi BiggerPockets community - 

I'm interviewing a hotel construction builder for a Q&A to answer general questions that investors, developers, and others in the real estate community might have about construction. I already have a few questions lined up of my own that I'm curious about, but I wanted to open up this opportunity to all of you to see if any of you had questions you might want to ask this builder as well! I'm hoping to incorporate these questions into my member blog here on BiggerPockets. 

If you have a question that you would like to ask, let me know! Some questions I'm already thinking of include:

  • What is "value engineering"?
  • What are recent construction trends in the hotel industry (such as modular engineering), and why are these trends on the rise now?
  • Are there preferred building materials that are in use by builders currently?

The builder specializes in hotels, but feel free to ask any questions that might have to do with other commercial or even residential real estate property types. I'm all for learning as much as possible. 

Thanks! Looking forward to hearing your questions!

John

Post: The Coming Death of Airbnb

John LimPosted
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 6

Totally agree with @James Carlson here - Millennials and more travelers, in general, are choosing Airbnb as an alternative. In 2015, the average age of an Airbnb guest (not host) was 35. The average host age is actually older. There is definitely pushback from many hotel companies who recognize it as a disruptor, but some hotel companies are even emulating Airbnb in their strategic plans. Bottom line is that the demand for home-sharing is clearly there. Airbnb has even discussed expanding into localized tours and experiences beyond just lodging, something that cruise lines have implemented for some time now. 

As has been mentioned, it comes down to the specific city market. New York and San Francisco (both major hotel markets with high housing demand) will inevitably have that push back, but there are many cities that actually work with Airbnb to promote tourism. It's not a perfect product, and hotels aren't disappearing anytime soon. Airbnb still needs to address quality standard and safety concerns. To that end, Airbnb isn't going away either. 

@Thomas S. to your point of people just buying hotels, a demand that hotels haven't been able to quite fully address yet is the fact that Airbnb offers its travelers the opportunity to travel to less traditionally focused tourism areas. For example, there are plenty of hotels in Manhattan, but for someone who wants an "off-the-beaten-path" experience in Woodside in Queens, it doesn't make sense financially for hotels to invest in larger-scale hotels if the demand is micro - something that a few Airbnb's could meet. 

@Chris Armstrong There are also some opportunities to invest in hotels without having to pay for a hotel outright. Hotel crowdfunding - and real estate crowdfunding - have been around for awhile as well, offering opportunities to investors who are looking to get into larger scale projects but can't attain the leverage they need if they were working alone. 

Overall, I think that there's definitely significant overlap in the lodging market between hotels and Airbnb, but there's also quite a bit the market that traditional hotels satisfy more effectively than Airbnb (and vice versa). It really comes down to the specific city and region. If anything, Airbnb could be a healthy push to hotel companies to evolve. 

Post: Kitchen Consultant Podcast - Send us your questions!

John LimPosted
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 6

@Julie Marquez and @Manolo D. - Yeah, Outback Steakhouse and Bonefish Grill are owned by the parent company, Bloomin' Brands. They also own products like Carrabba's Italian Grill and Fleming's Prime Steakhouse - which is why you might often see them built side by side like Manolo mentioned. 

Post: Kitchen Consultant Podcast - Send us your questions!

John LimPosted
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 6

Hi Julie! Thanks for responding. 

It's definitely a concept that a lot of BP members might not have exposure to, but one that is interesting - a lot of the strategies here could potentially apply in some way to other types of real estate investing outside of hotel investing. 

You're absolutely right that a lot of code (as well as brand standard requirements) can often force developers or investors to overbuild a kitchen with plenty of equipment that they don't need or won't use too much. 

There are ways to help cut costs here and there. 

1. Build the menu first

For many hotels in particular, it starts with building the menu first and then outfitting the kitchen based on what is needed to create the menu. It's actually here where a lot of the cost saving can be made. If I know that I'm making most of my items using a fryer, then I might not invest in as large of an oven or a grill. (Despite growing health-conscious trends, the bottom line is that flour and potatoes tend to make a kitchen's money as opposed to fresh produce and meats, at least for now). 

Menus where you're using similar items across breakfast, lunch, and dinner also have the potential to cut costs. If you're using onions and tomatoes in meals served at all times in the day, chances are you are streamlining your costs and increasing efficiency in the kitchen during operation. A lot of restaurants now are also considering this in combination with menu design - we're seeing simplified or smaller menus making a bigger splash. 

2. Sharing kitchen space

The two restaurants, one kitchen model has been around for awhile and continues to be a popular option. Two restaurants might share a kitchen located in the middle of two seemingly separate restaurants so that neither restaurant foots the full kitchen and maintenance bill during operations. With some dual brand hotels, which combine two different hotel brands in the same construction, there is also potential to share or consolidate kitchen operations as opposed to operating out of two separate kitchens. 

3. New vs. refurbished equipment

When you buy a brand new car from a dealership, we know that the value of that car immediately drops as soon as you drive it off the lot. Restaurant owners and hoteliers often can use this same principle to their advantage when building out a kitchen. There are lots of high-quality oven ranges that have long operational lives, for example. After the first year of use, those pieces of equipment drop in price considerably, even if the quality of the equipment is still very high. By looking at refurbished markets you can find considerably cheaper equipment for your kitchen without sacrificing quality.

4. Appealing to brands

From a hotel operational perspective (or even a government one), you can apply or appeal for alterations to kitchen design if you can make a strong case for it. Of course, there's a lot of variability in how easy that process is, both depending on your location and the brand you are working with, if applicable. 

Hope this is insightful!

John

Post: Kitchen Consultant Podcast - Send us your questions!

John LimPosted
  • Chicago, IL
  • Posts 12
  • Votes 6

Hi everyone - 

I'll be meeting with a Kitchen Consultant professional this week for a Q&A to answer any general questions investors, developers, and others in the BiggerPockets community might have about creating food and beverage (F&B) amenities, specifically for hotels. The information is intended to be incorporated into a larger podcast. The podcast itself is geared toward first-time investors or those unfamiliar with hotel or real estate investment.

If you have a question that you would like to be asked (anywhere from menu creation to equipment to sustainability) please let me know - I'd love to add any inquiries you might have. 

Best,

John

I don't know too much about the New York market, but I'd imagine that Airbnb is experiencing a little bit of city pushback. I've definitely used Airbnb while in NYC, but more for leisure as opposed to business travel.