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All Forum Posts by: John Lee

John Lee has started 1 posts and replied 11 times.

Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@John Lee

agree with being picky with where you live and your primary residence.  with that being said - see what the options are. and the more you can inconvenience yourself the more likely it is to work.  for example, buy a 2-unit, rent out 1 unit, and then rent all the bedrooms in the other unit to friends and sleep in the basement or on a couch.

let's recap

not easy: house hacking in NYC

easy: buying sub 30K houses that will turn into money pits and won't advance your goals at all


 Hmmm, yeah that makes sense LOL. Gotta make sacrifices somewhere.

Quote from @Travis Timmons:

@John Lee I probably need to walk some of that back. We all are a bit overconfident in the beginning before we get into it and figure out that there's not a lot of easy money to be made. The reality of real estate is just much more difficult and nuanced than it seems on a spreadsheet. 

A BRRRR, for example, is a cute term, but what it really means is that you are buying an absolute disaster of a property without fully knowing all of its problems until you own it. That's really expensive, scary, and stressful. And to make a BRRRR work in the current market, you either need a crew that can do cheap work or a way to source deals. Finding something on Zillow and taking a swing just doesn't work unless you can pay cash for a property that does not qualify for conventional financing.

Hope that helps. I do really mean it when I say that I'd be happy to help. We were all new at one point just trying to figure this thing out. 

No worries, didn't take it personally at all. I remember failing a few times learning the equity markets and fully expect real estate to be as hard, if not harder to navigate. The number crunching is probably the easiest part, whereas the networking and deal sourcing are all skills I'd need practice with. I fully intend to do my due diligence when approaching REI.
Quote from @Sam McCormack:
Quote from @John Lee:

Hi all,

My name is John and I'm a recent college grad about to start a Masters (SF/San Jose Area home base in California). My education background is in computer science, mathematics and some corporate finance, as well as have some internship experience in the quantitative finance space. Fascination in one type of market has led me to another, real estate investing, and now I'm looking to leverage my ability with numbers in the REI space as well. I am, admittedly, a complete novice but I consider myself an astute student! *As a side note, I think maybe it would be fun also to try and identify where new technology or machine-learning driven approaches could increase efficiency in the space

As for my financial situation, personally, I have around 50k saved but 20k of it is tied up in assets I don't want to pay capital gains tax on. This doesn't give me too much to work with, and as a student, I still have 0 income :(. From what I read and understand, this means I'm likely going to struggle with getting a loan, not even considering the inability to pay any down payment.
On the other hand, my parents have significant liquid assets, (think on the order of > 500k), that they are potentially looking to diversify into real estate. Additionally, they have another property which has appreciated in value, carries low interest rates, but has negative cashflow and essentially feels like it just locks money away. From what I can tell, the extra equity on the house could be utilized to provide better ROI. Provided I can establish a solid investment plan tailored to their financial needs/comforts such as debt ratios and income, they would be more than happy to offer me some financial control.

Additionally, If I wanted to, for the sake of building my own personal wealth, I admittedly have the luxury of taking a loan from my parents. However, I typically like to make a distinction between my parents assets and my own, simply because doing so provides me more satisfaction when I succeed. That being said, if it provides me a significant advantage or a starting point, I think it would be foolish not to utilize it.


Therefore, given these two different perspectives/starting points, I'd love to hear any potential advice on which strategies/niches to focus on first, and for which starting point. Other advice, especially that pertaining to tax benefits, is also highly appreciated!

As a starting point, I have been heavily considering the Sub30k category of REI. First of all, I love the morality component of it. I like that, unlike with say trading for a hedge fund, I can create opportunities for others rather than solely line the pockets of someone richer (that being said I still intend to make money). Additionally, it feels the most appropriate approach for both profiles I described above and allows me to focus on learning one strategy. The lower barrier to entry would be excellent for my personally smaller net worth. Additionally, since my parents are nearing the retirement age, I'd like to prioritize low-debt, high-cashflow deals. Sub30k seems to fit this bill, although I recognize there is also substantial risk associated with it when done improperly. If I'm correct in my analysis, then I'd guess I'm also looking for a mentor if anyone is willing!

All in all, I'd like to worm my way into the REI space and preemptively thank everyone who has taken the time to read my long introduction and offers their advice.

Thank you,

John

To keyword farm: rehabbing, fix and flip, house flipping, BRRRR, multi-family, apartment, long-term rentals


 Hell yeah man love to have you here! Young investor gang! Let me know if you want to talk more about it!

Thanks! Sent you a connection request!
Quote from @Travis Timmons:

You're looking at real estate as if it trades on a screen. Sub 30k houses are an absolute disaster with a tenant pool that will destroy your properties and make your life miserable. They will not appreciate. They are houses that nobody wants, which is why you can buy them for the price of a used car.

And you are correct - real estate does not scale quickly when you are starting out. The unfair advantage that house hacking presents is owner occupied leverage. If your DTI is good, you can control a $1M asset for $50k.

You don't have an income. Don't buy real estate.  Also, don't borrow from your parents. You just don't know what you are doing yet (none of us did at the beginning...that's okay). If you have not heard of the Dunning Kruger effect, look it up. You are at the peak of Mount Stupid right now. 

Sorry if that was a bit much. I have nothing to sell and would be happy to chat further if you think I can be a resource.

Ouch, while it does feel a bit much, I appreciate the reminder that like any other market, real estate carries risk. Also, I acknowledge I know very little about real estate. In fact, its become quite apparent that number crunching ranks rather low on the necessary skills for real estate compared to networking and communication and other business skills. Nonetheless, thats why I’m here to learn!

As for the Sub30k, I now agree with your perspective on it. It seems to come with pretty massive headaches that I won’t have time for. As of right now, looking to learn more about traditional BRRRR, particularly in markets with lower barriers to entry. 
Quote from @James Wise:
Quote from @John Lee:

Hi all,

My name is John and I'm a recent college grad about to start a Masters (SF/San Jose Area home base in California). My education background is in computer science, mathematics and some corporate finance, as well as have some internship experience in the quantitative finance space. Fascination in one type of market has led me to another, real estate investing, and now I'm looking to leverage my ability with numbers in the REI space as well. I am, admittedly, a complete novice but I consider myself an astute student! *As a side note, I think maybe it would be fun also to try and identify where new technology or machine-learning driven approaches could increase efficiency in the space

As for my financial situation, personally, I have around 50k saved but 20k of it is tied up in assets I don't want to pay capital gains tax on. This doesn't give me too much to work with, and as a student, I still have 0 income :(. From what I read and understand, this means I'm likely going to struggle with getting a loan, not even considering the inability to pay any down payment.
On the other hand, my parents have significant liquid assets, (think on the order of > 500k), that they are potentially looking to diversify into real estate. Additionally, they have another property which has appreciated in value, carries low interest rates, but has negative cashflow and essentially feels like it just locks money away. From what I can tell, the extra equity on the house could be utilized to provide better ROI. Provided I can establish a solid investment plan tailored to their financial needs/comforts such as debt ratios and income, they would be more than happy to offer me some financial control.

Additionally, If I wanted to, for the sake of building my own personal wealth, I admittedly have the luxury of taking a loan from my parents. However, I typically like to make a distinction between my parents assets and my own, simply because doing so provides me more satisfaction when I succeed. That being said, if it provides me a significant advantage or a starting point, I think it would be foolish not to utilize it.


Therefore, given these two different perspectives/starting points, I'd love to hear any potential advice on which strategies/niches to focus on first, and for which starting point. Other advice, especially that pertaining to tax benefits, is also highly appreciated!

As a starting point, I have been heavily considering the Sub30k category of REI. First of all, I love the morality component of it. I like that, unlike with say trading for a hedge fund, I can create opportunities for others rather than solely line the pockets of someone richer (that being said I still intend to make money). Additionally, it feels the most appropriate approach for both profiles I described above and allows me to focus on learning one strategy. The lower barrier to entry would be excellent for my personally smaller net worth. Additionally, since my parents are nearing the retirement age, I'd like to prioritize low-debt, high-cashflow deals. Sub30k seems to fit this bill, although I recognize there is also substantial risk associated with it when done improperly. If I'm correct in my analysis, then I'd guess I'm also looking for a mentor if anyone is willing!

All in all, I'd like to worm my way into the REI space and preemptively thank everyone who has taken the time to read my long introduction and offers their advice.

Thank you,

John

To keyword farm: rehabbing, fix and flip, house flipping, BRRRR, multi-family, apartment, long-term rentals


 Holla

😂 Hi! Sent a connection request. 
Quote from @Regina Blake:

Hi, welcome and great information, congratulations on your higher education achievement. If you have any question regarding the Ohio real estate market. Please feel free to reach out. Best Wishes!

Thanks Regina! I’ve extended a connection request!
Quote from @Samuel Diouf:

If you can save up 20% down in a low-cost market like Cleveland, you could use a DSCR loan to secure financing while you still don't have any stable income.

If you decide to take this kind of route, it's still very important to go in with a secure plan and also have at least 6 months of reserves. 

Hi Samuel,

Thanks for the perspective! Definitely will look into DSCR loans as part of my education. I’m not confident this approach fits the best with how my life is panning out though but I’m open to learning more. 
Quote from @Melissa Haworth:

Hi John,

Welcome to the world of real estate investing—it sounds like you’ve got an amazing foundation to build on, even if you’re just starting out. With your background in computer science, math, and finance, you’re bringing some valuable tools to the table. I also love that you’re thinking about how tech and machine learning could create efficiencies in real estate—there’s so much untapped potential in that space!

For someone in your position, starting small but strategic might be the best move. With $30K available, you could look at partnering with your parents to co-invest in a property. It's a lower-risk way to get your feet wet while you're learning. House hacking might also be worth exploring—buying a duplex or small multi-family property, living in one unit, and renting out the others. It's a great way to start building equity while offsetting living costs, and programs like FHA loans can make it easier to get in with a lower down payment.

Since your parents are open to diversifying into real estate, that could be a big advantage, especially with the equity they have tied up in their property. Tapping into that equity through a HELOC or cash-out refinance and reinvesting in higher-performing assets could improve their ROI significantly. If you do decide to work with them, you could set up a clear partnership where they're equity partners and you handle the management and operations. It keeps things professional while giving you room to grow your expertise.

I admire your perspective on keeping your parents’ resources separate from your own—it’s smart to want to succeed on your own terms. At the same time, using those resources strategically now could help you build momentum for your own portfolio faster. It’s all about finding that balance.

As for incorporating tech into real estate, there are so many opportunities! From using data to identify emerging markets to building tools that automate property analysis or management, your skills could really give you an edge. Even creating a simple model to evaluate potential deals or predict returns could be a fun way to combine your interests while gaining hands-on experience.

The most important thing is to start somewhere. Even a small first step will teach you so much, and with your analytical mindset, I have no doubt you’ll make smart decisions along the way. If you ever have questions or want feedback on a plan, feel free to reach out—I’d love to help. Best of luck to you! 😊

Hi Melissa,

This is incredibly encouraging to hear, and thank you for the advice. I agree on the professional partnership with my parents and I’m looking to discuss more with them to find the right balance!

As for the house, upon taking a few other perspectives, it might be wise not to touch it too much? My parents are nearing retirement and likely want to keep their debt lower. Additionally, they managed to refinance while the rates were at historical lows (and still somehow cashflow negative ik 😭), so any loan methods that involve changing those rates are not ideal. Additionally, I think they have unused capital on hand already. I appreciate if you have other thoughts on this!

Lastly, I sent you a connection request and would love to learn more from you!
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

You typically need up to two years of stable employment before a bank will loan to you. I would look for investments with owner financing to skip past that requirement.

Maybe you can partner with your parents on the first property? Buy a house using your parents' money, then manage it for them while living there. After two years, they can sell the property to you as your first solo investment. Or you can sell it, split the equity, and go separate ways.

I'm not a fan of borrowing from family/friends unless all parties are honest and everything is documented in a written contract.

Hi Nathan,

Thanks for the advice! I definitely agree with your sentiment regarding borrowing from family/friends, and I don’t want that kind of strain on my relationships. I’ll likely work out some partnership they agree on. 

One thing I was considering was an LLC/S-corp style entity where I can manage it while they get equity. Not exactly sure about the legal details, but initial overview of the system seems to suggest this kills quite a few birds with one stone. 


Quote from @Nicholas L.:

@John Lee

definitely lots to think about.  i would:

-get the highest paying W2 job you can

-save up enough to buy a house hack

-house hack

while you continue to learn and consider the other possibilities you mentioned.

Thanks for your advice Nicholas! 

The one thing I’m really picky about is where I live (aka my goal is NYC) and it doesn’t seem reasonable to use this strategy there due to costs of living. It might also be unavoidable to live in a high cost of living area due to my career choices. 

Also, from what I’m reading house hacking doesn’t really seem to be scalable since you have to reside in the location? Is it primarily just a way to jumpstart REI given the loan/tax benefits?