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All Forum Posts by: Joey Chrisman

Joey Chrisman has started 8 posts and replied 24 times.

Quote from @Ryan Normand:

I wouldn't sweat it for cosmetic stuff like flooring and painting. Yes, you are supposed to have a license for any work above $1000, but most cities around PHX do not require permits or inspections for cosmetic work anyway and are unlikely to enforce that rule IF you're only doing cosmetic work. Just make sure you know what you're doing. Believe it or not it is possible to screw up painting, flooring, etc. so do the future homeowners a favor and call a pro if you're not 100% confident you know the proper materials and protocols for installation. 

HOWEVER, if you plan on doing anything beyond cosmetic work (structural, mechanical, electrical, etc.), you should be using licensed contractors, especially if you're doing work that requires a permit. This absolutely will be enforced. In most cities, you're required to list a ROC# just to pull the permit.

PS That law isn't ridiculous. It's there for consumer protection. In your case it seems petty because you're just painting one house, but imagine if there was an unlicensed painter running around doing 100+ houses per year, 100's of thousands of dollars worth of revenue, all without proper licensing, liability insurance, backgrounds check, no warranties, etc. See how that could become a problem?

PPS The fact that you're familiar with these laws and asking these questions puts you ahead of 95% of the flippers out there. I just finished a job where 2 of the houses across the street were flips-in-progress. Major plumbing, electrical, and structural modifications with no permits and probably not a single licensed contractor in sight. Absolutely butchered by the looks of it. Keep exercising due diligence and use common sense and you will be fine.

That's kind of what I figured. I just was surprised to learn this.  I have a friend who is a flipper and says to never get permits or use licensed people for anything.  It only takes one person getting hurt on your job site to sue you.  The chances of anyone really coming after you for bad paint is kind of limited.  But it amazes me how many flips are done by non general contractors and don't pull any permits.  
Quote from @Account Closed:
Quote from @Mark Bohstedt:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Joey Chrisman

Painting and tile are not licensed work and do not require a permit

Electrical/plumbing etc make sense but a painter is not licensed.


 Actually, my painter and tile contractor are licensed, and are required to be licensed in Arizona. 

I'm curious why the painter and tile are required to be licensed. I'd love to see the ARS for that. Not that it doesn't exist, but I'd like to read it.

 Does that mean your neighbor can't help you tile on a saturday afternoon?

https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocu...

32-1121. Persons not required to be licensed; penalties; applicability

A. This chapter does not apply to:

10. Employees of the owners of condominiums, townhouses, cooperative units or apartment complexes of four units or less or the owners' management agent or employees of the management agent repairing or maintaining structures owned by them.

11. Any person who engages in the activities regulated by this chapter, as an employee of an exempt property owner or as an employee with wages as the person's sole compensation.

Any work over $1000 would require you to be licensed.  So if I spend more than $1000 on materials and say tile the floors I would defacto be operating as an unlicensed contractor.  

My plan is to sell it under a year time.  

Quote from @Mark Bohstedt:
Quote from @Chris Seveney:

@Mark Bohstedt

Wow.

Never saw that in any states we work in. Insurance absolutely but not needing licenses.

A lot of the western states seem to require licensing.  In Branson, Missouri where I also build I believe only HVAC and Electrical Contractors need to be licensed. I had to show 4 years of home building experience in Az plus take two tests to get my General Contractor license, in Missouri all I have to do is get a business license in each municipality I build in. 

so do you think it's best I just hire a general contractor for the whole project? 

I have a fixer upper house that my LLC now owns and am in the process of getting plans together and starting the renovation on it. I would like to ideally sell the property when I am done with the property. Im trying to do a mix of using a general contractor and licensed contractors but also doing some of the stuff like landscaping, painting, and demo on my own to save some money. If your intent is to sell or rent the place in 1 year after the property is completed you must have licensed contractors do all of the work. Since I am not a licensed contractor this would not be allowed even for say painting the house. How ridiculous is this? Is this something that is even enforced if say you install the tile floors yourself? Essentially if you sell the house and then 1 year later a tile cracks or something and the buyer could come back and try to say you did work without a license and wants a remedy for the bad work. Is this really something to be concerned about?

Quote from @Marty Boardman:
Quote from @Joey Chrisman:
Quote from @Chad U.:
Quote from @Joey Chrisman:

I'm confused.  Why would I want the note when the original mortgage balance that is owed is more than what I believe the property is worth.  I don't want the property for the price the trustee paid.  Or you're saying buy the note for a discount?   I doubt the foreclosure process is that expensive in Arizona and they likely have already spent a decent amount on the process already.  

 Buy the note at a discount.  However I've seen numerous defaulted fix and flip loans, and the lenders are holding out for par.  They are still in disbelief, like many sellers are, that house prices have come down and not willing to budge much.  AZ is non-judicial so the foreclosure cost is relatively quick and inexpensive 

Yeah so there really isn't much of a deal then on these properties is what it sounds like.  The lenders aren't going to be that motivated to get them off their books at a discount.   I'm just searching for any kind of fix and flip properties now and it is very tough to find anything that gives margin right now.    

Finding below market deals in Arizona is definitely a challenge. I get wholesalers sending me properties here daily that don't pencil out and wonder who is buying these homes? 

I like to target homeowners in foreclosure with less than 30 days until auction. At this point they're out of options and the big iBuyers can't help, nor can a Realtor. My last two deals (fix and flips) I acquired directly from the homeowner 24 hours prior to the auction.

Your best bet Joey is to source your own deals through marketing, networking, etc. Trying to make a deal with a HML buying paper, short sales, etc. is high-hanging fruit. Good luck!

Yeah I contacted the lender but no idea on how motivated they are to sell it.  The home owners you're talking about have equity I would assume otherwise there isn't really a deal for a pre forclosure I assume.  And yes I have been checking the mls and wholesalers and most the properties I see don't really seem like they are that great of deals.  Trying to find even crappy properties that are priced right is difficult.  Like the discount given for a place that needs a lot of work often isn't enough to make it a profitable endeavor. 
Quote from @Chad U.:
Quote from @Joey Chrisman:

I'm confused.  Why would I want the note when the original mortgage balance that is owed is more than what I believe the property is worth.  I don't want the property for the price the trustee paid.  Or you're saying buy the note for a discount?   I doubt the foreclosure process is that expensive in Arizona and they likely have already spent a decent amount on the process already.  

 Buy the note at a discount.  However I've seen numerous defaulted fix and flip loans, and the lenders are holding out for par.  They are still in disbelief, like many sellers are, that house prices have come down and not willing to budge much.  AZ is non-judicial so the foreclosure cost is relatively quick and inexpensive 

Yeah so there really isn't much of a deal then on these properties is what it sounds like.  The lenders aren't going to be that motivated to get them off their books at a discount.   I'm just searching for any kind of fix and flip properties now and it is very tough to find anything that gives margin right now.    

I'm confused.  Why would I want the note when the original mortgage balance that is owed is more than what I believe the property is worth.  I don't want the property for the price the trustee paid.  Or you're saying buy the note for a discount?   I doubt the foreclosure process is that expensive in Arizona and they likely have already spent a decent amount on the process already.  

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

it would be rare that you could talk to the lender once the house is taken back.

The lenders have protocols to follow and once they take it back they will then list it with their Pet REO broker thats the person U want to snuggle up to

A great OREO broker is a great contact.

This is a smaller hard money lender on this particular property.  Not some big bank. That's why I was thinking maybe they keep the REO in house.  Being that it is a hard money lender I'm sure there are plenty of flippers they work with that they could Re market the property to as well.  

I have seen a decent amount of flipper houses go into pre foreclosure lately in Phoenix that were purchased at the top of the market.  These houses loan balances are too high to make any money on a flip buying it for the loan balance owed.  In 2010 these houses would just go to the auction block to be liquidated in no reserve auctions as the banks didn't care what price the assets sold for then.  I doubt the lenders will do that this time and they will more than likely open the bid for the balance owed and there will likely be no bids and they will take the house back.  So I'm guessing the best strategy may be to just wait for the lender to take the property back and then contact the lenders to see if they are motivated to get it off their books?  The only other strategy I could see would be a short sale but I don't really see the benefit of the short sale to the lender as I doubt the foreclosure process costs that much in scheme of things and the trustee would have to sign off on the deal as well in addition to the lender.  Am I missing something here?   

Post: How to properly take photos of a flip

Joey ChrismanPosted
  • Scottsdale, Az
  • Posts 24
  • Votes 18

https://redf.in/TLLz19

this is a perfect example of how to get a flip picture perfect for resale!