All Forum Posts by: Jesse LeBlanc

Quote from @Tom Gimer:

Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:

@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal.  FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.

First things first... did you receive a closing protection letter?

Property never recorded or closed, attorney wired the funds before anything was finalized for any CPL to matter and E&O with fraud claim is also out the window. 

but I’ll take this one to PM with you since I’m more focused on what if anything could happen later against the prior lien holder and seller for negotiating a “favor” and increase the payoff and keeping the money refusing to send back to the closing attorney after the closing attorney requested the recall.

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:

@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.

Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!!  Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault.  Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING.  Sue me if you want.  CYA


That's what this is.  But again, not trying to get into my case.  What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE.   Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing.  But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again.

Jesse ,  I assume you had escrow instructions to the attorney .. IE, you can do this, when you hold this for me etc etc.. It really sounds like the attorney messed up and exactly like your pointing out you have the other parties that are just saying too bad.. @Tom Gimer  I bet Tom being an owner of a title company and an attorney might be able to assist or comment on this scenario.. I understand TF is a bizz unto itself and with states like SC coming down on assignments etc its only going to be more in demand from the wholesaler community trying to do their deals.. I personally dont know where title insurance comes into play with these either if your not recording a debt instrument and then getting a lenders Alta

This is certainly an unheard scenario that not one closing attorney or title company I've ever talked with has ever seen! Yes, clear instructions. Attorney even admitted what she did long ago and offered up her E&O right away. So I have all the evidence we need for a slam dunk case, but since March, you can see it's not an overnight thing.

Once I get the lien, then I’ll work on all the next steps. Just getting a head start on if it comes down to a future trial and then bringing in the lender as well and just interested in what other possible charges the lender or borrower could face that I want to begin researching but also to bring that up now to put more pressure on the parties. I’ll PM you something that will blow you away…

Quote from @Chris Seveney:

Quote from @Don Konipol:

The only thing I don’t understand is why the OP, with millions of dollars at stake, asks investors on a general real estate forum for answers to specific legal questions instead of asking an attorney specializing in mortgage law. 

“They needed my funds to satisfy the hud, my money is escrow was NEVER to be wired anywhere but only remain in escrow to complete $ need for HUD along with buyers lender. My payoff was then added to the sellers side, I'd be paid back at the time of closing and seller and buyer then would take 2nd position from seller finance and my payoff on sellers side should have been wired back to me.”

IF, I understand the OP comment I quoted above, his money was needed to give the appearance that the transaction was DIFFERENT in some way (hiding seller financing ?, making it appear as if buyer was investing more?, etc.) then it really was, in order (I guess) to induce a loan or some other “benefit”.  If so, then the OP, who’s claiming he was a “transactional lender”, was a part of said fraud.  Maybe my understanding of the situation is incorrect, and if so I will gladly stand corrected.  

 What county is the lawsuit filed in?

 DeKalb, GA

Quote from @Joe S.:

Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:

@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal.  FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.

I didn’t even know that a title company was allowed to pay off a lien without an actual closing/getting the signature of all parties.  You might have a case against the title company if I read it correctly.

EXACTLY MY FRIEND!!! They are NOT supposed to and have systems and SOP not to, but it can be pushed through manually. Clearly…

we do have all of that under litigation and “under control” already.  I’m just focused on discovering FOR LATER if it’s a criminal offense for the lender (and borrower) to inflate the payoff for the sole purpose of collecting more $ especially now that it never closed and the prior lender refused to even assign me their lien and the borrower had already used some of the money so OFCOURSE the lender wouldn’t send the money back or they’d be out the extra $ they sent to the borrower that was already used.

@Chris Seveney title insurance covers IF a property closed. Doesn’t cover you when a closing company who wires your money to a prior lien holder and then never closes the deal.  FARRR DIFFERENT SCNENARIO.

@Don Konipol The buyers lender was aware of the Seller Finance scenario and didn't care because this was a commercial loan and they were in for around 50% with the seller the other 50% so they had security. However, 100% of the $ must be sent to Escrow to satisfy the HUD.

Seller of course doesn't have the $ as it's in the property.  Buyer doesn't have all of it and needed the small difference to bring to closing which would then be paid back at closing from the seller side for the $ I brought for the borrower.  Then the $ I put in to satisfy the hud, which is ultimately the amount the seller would do a seller carry back for, would be paid back to me from the seller on their side of the HUD and then the seller has that amount less in the pocket and takes a 2nd lien with the borrower.

And 100% not some Pace Morby crap, i've been doing this longer before he was making up names for creative financing that's been around forever. :)

@Chris Seveney Imagine you are lending in first position. Great, docs are signed. You send your wire to escrow for title or closing attorney. Buyer then ghosts and didn't send in what they owed to satisfy the HUD. Attorney by then had already sent your 2.5M to a HIDDEN lender/lien that was never disclosed to you.

Regardless of what position you THOUGHT you were going to be in, your in ZERO position now with ZERO security in the property because the deed was never recorded, property never closed and your money is gone and the sellers then go AHA!!!!  Free MONEY!!! My lender was paid off, not my problem anymore, I never signed anything with this other lender, it's the attorney's fault.  Thank you for paying off my loan but now I DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING.  Sue me if you want.  CYA


That's what this is.  But again, not trying to get into my case.  What I found out later was that this seller and the prior lienholder is that there were private discussions and they did a "favor" and increased the payoff knowing they were about to "close" and likely thinking NO ONE would ever find out because IF it had closed, it wouldn't make much difference to the seller and the lender BUT since it didn't close (and might have been the whole fraudelent intention from the start) now the seller has a paid off property, and extra few hundred K in the sellers pocket, and when requested for the prior lender to return the wire, they REFUSE.   Now I know why, because the extra few hundred K wasn't secure if the lender thought it was legit closing.  But now if they sent the wire back, they'd be OUT that money because the borrower had already spent the extra $ on the side and the lender would be right back in the position they were in before but worse and out even more $ until the borrower finally sold their property again.

Quote from @Joe S.:

Quote from @Jesse LeBlanc:

@Joe S. over 2.5M of my funds are sitting in another lenders bank who shouldn’t have it and I have no security interest in the property that was paid off. Not to mention the loss of income for 8 months, shutting down the business and many other trickling down financial problems because of it.  

But again, I’m not trying to get all into my case, I’m focused more on factual OCGA law and or other known criminal charges and references to them I can research along with more info from an experienced lender, attorney, judge etc who might know what I can later go after the prior lender as well for.

 Sorry to hear that…😞 I regret for commenting earlier… I was going off your first original post.

 It’s all good my friend!  I thought you were just going to be a Troll and I wasn’t going to deal with it LOL.  I sincerely appreciate it sir 🤘🏼🦾

@Joe S. over 2.5M of my funds are sitting in another lenders bank who shouldn’t have it and I have no security interest in the property that was paid off. Not to mention the loss of income for 8 months, shutting down the business and many other trickling down financial problems because of it.  

But again, I’m not trying to get all into my case, I’m focused more on factual OCGA law and or other known criminal charges and references to them I can research along with more info from an experienced lender, attorney, judge etc who might know what I can later go after the prior lender as well for.

Perhaps don’t skim @Joe S. and or make assumptions. Let me know if you have any valuable responses after you get caught up.