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All Forum Posts by: Jenny Zhang

Jenny Zhang has started 3 posts and replied 35 times.

Post: Good humidifier for basement

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26

Hi everyone,  

Do you have a good humidifier you can recommend for a wet basement?  NEPA area with winters below freezing point.


Thank you. 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Ian Ippolito:
Quote from @Jenny Zhang:

How you get yourself feel comfortable with invest in Syndications? I am struggling a little with it since I am not seeing the real documents used for underwriting and etc. So all the document presented are put together with a team I never worked with before.  Granted they all have podcast...   

There was once I was really close to invest in one of the Brandon Turner's deal last year, but I stopped.  If you have experience with his syndication projects, do you mind share how they are doing? 


Really appreciated.

Jenny, 

For vetting a syndication, different investors do it differently because every investor comes from a different financial situation and has different goals and risk tolerance. For me, I'm a very conservative investor and may look through a hundred deals a month, and at the end of the year only invest in 4-5. So things that are a red flag for me may be fine for someone more aggressive.  Here's how I do my due diligence:

1) Portfolio matching: (takes 30 seconds per deal)

a) Have an educated opinion on where I think we are in the real estate cycles (financial and physical market cycles)

b) Then and only then do I pick the strategies, capital stack, and specialized asset subclasses that make sense for that opinion. For example, I am a little concerned about some aspects of the business cycle recovery and a potential for a double-dip so I lean toward the safest part of capital stack which is debt (or low-debt equity). I won't go with the riskiest opportunistic strategies, and will stick to core and core plus mostly with some value-added. I won't be investing in the riskiest/most supportable asset subclasses such as hotels, and tilt my portfolio the ones that have historically been more stable such as multifamily and single-family housing. I also don't want refinancing risk, so any deals with only 3 to 5 year debt are out for me. For someone that's not as conservative, or a different view on the cycle, they might have a different opinion than me on all of this.

2) Sponsor quality check: (takes about 45 minutes per deal)

I believe that a great sponsor can take an average looking deal and make it great, and that in mediocre sponsor can take a fantastic looking deal and make it bad (especially if there is a severe recession). So I start with the sponsor first. Again, others might disagree.

a) Track Record: Get the entire track record for the strategy. As easy as this sounds, it's not simple and usually like pulling teeth. Many times they will claim it's wonderful and then try to hide their worst deals by only showing completed deals. Make sure to get unexited deals. Or if they are doing value-added multifamily, they will show you their hotel experience. That doesn't cut it for me. I want a specialist that's an expert, and not a jack of all trades and master of none. Also, in a mainstream asset class like value-added multifamily, I see no reason to take a risk on a sponsor that doesn't have full real estate cycle experience or that lost anything more than a small amount of money (and prefer no money lost). Again, other might feel differently here.

b) Skin in the game: as a conservative investor, I understand that the dirty secret of industries that the waterfall compensation is in the line with me and incentivizes sponsors to take more risk. So I require skin in the game (average is 5% to 15%) to offset this. Contrary to popular belief, this is not set because I believe it will give me a higher return. I believe it tends to give me a slightly lower return, because the sponsor is going to be more careful, and if there is a severe downturn will prevent me from taking catastrophic losses. Someone that is more aggressive, may want lesser even though skin in the game. Also, if the sponsor is new, I am fine with less skin in the game as long as it is significant to their net worth. On the other hand if they are a sponsor that is experienced in stopping a skin in the game, that's a huge red flag for me.

c) how open to scrutiny are they? I always discuss investments with others in an investor club because other people might think of things that I might miss. And even though virtually every sponsor agreement allows me to share investment information with others who might be advising me on it (especially when club members are bound by an NDA), I still ask the sponsor if I can share it, because it's a test. Most are fine with that, but a few will have problems with it and claim there are legal issues, etc.. That's a red flag for me.

d) death by Google: I Google everything I can about the sponsor. I check the SEC, FINRA, ratings websites for inside information on the principals in the company. I also look for lawsuits and see what happened in them. Many times it's an easy red flag. Sometimes it's ambiguous, but even then, why should I bother with the company that has numerous unresolved lawsuits, versus another company that is virtually the same but has none. Again, others might feel differently here.

3) property level due diligence: (takes seconds to weeks per deal): here is where I drill in with the low-level details.

a) pro forma popping: I examine all the assumptions, and see if they are overoptimistic or not. I look at every single item in the pro forma and imagine that it is complete BS, and see if I can challenge it. If there's a hole, it may be a red flag.

b) sensitivity analysis: I examine all the assumptions, and make sure I can live with the worst case scenarios.

c) "Stall and see": if they are getting money over multiple years, and there is no penalty for investing later, I would usually wait so I get some real performance data, versus having to look at theoretical pro forma information.

d) Recession stress test: I will not invest in anything, until I subject it to recession level stress and see if I can live with the result. And I take the worst recession I can find in the recent past. Sometimes there is only great recession data, and that recession was pretty mild on some asset classes, versus previous recessions. So I will usually 1.5x or 2.0x the stress. If the deal collapses and I would lose everything, I'm out. Others might be fine with taking risk, but least by doing this a person can get an idea of what might go wrong.

e) Legal document analysis: it will usually take a few days to go through the legal document properly, as almost inevitably there are tons of gotchas that either have to be explained, or mitigated with a side letter.

That is the very short summary of what I do. If you want more information, p.m. me and I can give you a lot more details.


 Thank you so much for spending your valuable time to detail out each points and steps. It makes logical sense. Yes, I am considering myself conservative investor too. I only take calculated manageable risk.  I don't bet on things.  Will definitely reach out to connet. 

Really appreciated! 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @John P.:

I have invested with several syndicators over the past 7 years. Curious if anybody has any others to recommend as I like the idea of being as diversified as possible as I would like to avoid a Bernie Madoff type situation ruining my retirement. :)

In no particular order:

Rise48 - Arizona and Texas multifamily;

Think Multifamily - Texas multifamily; 

Open Door Capital - Texas multifamily; 

Lonestar Capital - Texas multifamily; 

Camino Verde Group - Vegas, Texas and South Carolina multifamily; 

Disrupt Equity - Texas multifamily; 

Garages of America - Texas storage; 

Ashcroft Capital - multiple states.

Others I have heard of but not invested in:

BAM - Indy;

Grocapitus - Arizona and Texas; 

Elevate CIG - currently has a deal in South Dakota; 

Praxis Capital - seems to do a lot in Georgia but currently just has a fund open;

Sunrise Capital - parking lots and multifamily - storage too? 

Wellings Capital - fund; 

ANY OTHERS you recommend? Any input on the above?  I'd love to get into some other sunbelt states besides Texas as I seem to be Texas heavy right now.

There is a divide between two types of syndications.  One is the “fund” that invests in multiple properties.  Usually, only some, if any of these properties have been chosen by the time investments are made, so you’re investing without complete knowledge as to the specific property.  If no properties have Ben identified it’s known as a blind pool.
The second, and more common syndication is where ownership, and or debt of a specific property is identified, and essentially the investors are what we used to know as “limited partners” (now there actually almost always “non managing members” of an LLC.  An operating agreement is used giving the investors limited rights, and the 
manager” (sponsor) almost total decision making control (as long as the decision making doesn’t violate securities regulations.  

Btw, LOTS of GREAT information in the responses to this post!  It’s hard to get “comfortable” with giving someone else control over your money, ESPECIALLY in a situation with the absence of liquidity.  Here are the rules I suggest you consider
1- A THOROUGH background check on the sponsor.  Google may not be enough; for a seriously large investment I consider hiring an expert to dig deep.
2 - Speak with current and former investors - if sponsor won’t provide names move on
3 - start with a SMALL investment, you don’t need to put all your money to work at once
4 -Study the sponsors track record.  For conservative investors consider eliminated any sponsors who have not been around the 2008-2012 real estate depression. 
5- only invest in offerings utilizing Reg D or Reg A.  Eliminate any offerings relying on the general exemption for securities registration.  
6- consider hiring a SECURITIES” attorney to review the PPM and Operating Agreement.  Mostly to see if there’s anything “unusual” you need to be aware of. 

 Great points.  Thank you, Don. 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Matthew Drouin:

@Jenny Zhang

I am an active operator that raises capital from passive investors but I also passively invest in others deals to diversify.

To be honest I enjoy my passive investments more lol

But i think a good blend between fund and doing it yourself would be to JV with someone on a larger deal where you have an active part.

Or become a CO-General Partner on someone else’s deal where you play a part in the deal which could include the underwriting.

Incidentally, what types of deals have you done thus far in your real estate investing?

Hi John, 

Maybe we can chat and see how you evaluate your pick for Syndication as a passive investor since you have experiences with both.  I have done townhomes, Multies and Small apartment.  Looking for scaling.   Also considering syndication but haven't find a systematic way to evaluating the projects since all you can see are the papers/numbers being presented to you. Thoughts? Thanks.

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Solomon Rosenberg:

I had a good experience with Kyle Mitchell Vertical street Ventures in AZ and Alex May of Regency Capital TX.

@Jenny Zhang investing in syndications is not for everyone, for some it's very hard giving up control and trusting someone else with a large chunk of $, you may be better investing on your own or joint venture where you can be more hands on.


 Hi there, 

I totally get it. It is not giving up control part. It is to giving up control for a good reason besides just follow the guru or what is being presented. I am a number person and a CPA.  I want substantiation.  haha...  I just prefer trust based on proof.  So many syndicator's track records are all based on the crazy booming years, which says less about their expertise, that does give me an idea -- I should start to look into some syndicators with longer history ( weather through the downturns ).  That might be a good starting point.   Thanks!! 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @John P.:
Quote from @Jenny Zhang:
Quote from @John P.:
Quote from @Jenny Zhang:

How you get yourself feel comfortable with invest in Syndications? I am struggling a little with it since I am not seeing the real documents used for underwriting and etc. So all the document presented are put together with a team I never worked with before.  Granted they all have podcast...   

There was once I was really close to invest in one of the Brandon Turner's deal last year, but I stopped.  If you have experience with his syndication projects, do you mind share how they are doing? 


Really appreciated.


 I have invested in a few of Open Door Capital's investments (Brandon Turner) and so far so good.  It's pretty early though.  Need to get through a recession to really know!   My feeling is you do all the due diligence you can on the syndicator as a starting point but I am not looking for a job.  You do what you can on the deals but my goal is to utilize someone else's knowledge and work.  I am paying them a fee.  I would like to avoid a Bernie Madoff type situation but beyond that I diversify and hope that mailbox money continues!  :)    This works for me but perhaps not everybody.


 Thank you John.  My trouble is that I am very hands on and like to due diligence myself.  So I concern is how can you know the document/underwriting presented to you are all truth.  This is not me not trusting people.  The hurdle is how to meaningfully exam the facts behind those document in order to trust it.   I hope I expressed it clearly.  

I understand your question. I do not concern myself with that. Syndications just might not be right for you. I want to do as little as possible with my investments. I enjoy other stuff more. There is inherent risk in this mentality which works ok for me. I diversify syndicators, geographic locations, types of properties, cash flow v growth, etc. For me this works. 

 Totally understand!!

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Ned J.:

I have been in 3 with Praxis Capital and have been very happy with them. 

I have 2 currently with Fortress Federation and they are both doing "ok". They are both in FL and the current political climate and the insurance issues have made them not perform as well as expected. 


 Appreciated, Ned. 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Paul S.:

@Jenny Zhang

You should look into Ian Ippolito’s Private Investor Club (privateinvestorclub.com). If you want to learn how to do deep dive due diligence as well as access world class sponsors, check it out.

Paul


 Thank you so much. I will check it out. 

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @John P.:
Quote from @Jenny Zhang:

How you get yourself feel comfortable with invest in Syndications? I am struggling a little with it since I am not seeing the real documents used for underwriting and etc. So all the document presented are put together with a team I never worked with before.  Granted they all have podcast...   

There was once I was really close to invest in one of the Brandon Turner's deal last year, but I stopped.  If you have experience with his syndication projects, do you mind share how they are doing? 


Really appreciated.


 I have invested in a few of Open Door Capital's investments (Brandon Turner) and so far so good.  It's pretty early though.  Need to get through a recession to really know!   My feeling is you do all the due diligence you can on the syndicator as a starting point but I am not looking for a job.  You do what you can on the deals but my goal is to utilize someone else's knowledge and work.  I am paying them a fee.  I would like to avoid a Bernie Madoff type situation but beyond that I diversify and hope that mailbox money continues!  :)    This works for me but perhaps not everybody.


 Thank you John.  My trouble is that I am very hands on and like to due diligence myself.  So I concern is how can you know the document/underwriting presented to you are all truth.  This is not me not trusting people.  The hurdle is how to meaningfully exam the facts behind those document in order to trust it.   I hope I expressed it clearly.  

Post: Syndicators - any recommendations?

Jenny ZhangPosted
  • Posts 38
  • Votes 26
Quote from @Vessi Kapoulian:

@Jenny Zhang: Most sponsors would be willing to share their underwrite or answer questions. If they do not, that would be a reason to pause and walk away. To get comfortable with the sponsor and team, if you are not able to connect in person, connecting online over Zoom is a good initial step. Then connecting to their newsletter and social media posts is a good way to stay in touch and get to know them over a period of time. Passive investor forums (like the two I mentioned above) are a good way to get feedback from other passive investors. I hope that helps.

Thank you, Vessi. I will check out the forums.  I think it is mind set shift that would take a good effort to overcome.  Nowadays, trust can be built based on social media presence. I am the type still building trust from experiences working with people together hands on.  This is a big change for me personally. haha...