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All Forum Posts by: Jeffrey Evans

Jeffrey Evans has started 6 posts and replied 120 times.

Post: Louisville, KY starting home inspections

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

I have received a couple letters from the city to fix peddy little things in the past few months on my rental.  These have all been on the out side of the house or yard.  So this new Ordinance they will go inside and inspect everything?  Doesn't seem like more tenants would want them doing random in home inspections either. 

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

@Wesley Whitehead Nice!  stoked to hear its working well for you man.  

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

wow this thread has spun all kinds of sideways :)  it took me a couple years to pull the trigger and get a policy.  Its not for everyone but it is working well for me.  And it serves more then 1 purpose.  It gives my wife the worry wort some piece of mind if something happened to me and it allows me to stuff money away and have quick access to it for investments.  Yes it has a cost up front.  But patients and long term you get access to more money then you put into it.  Yes maybe if I had millions in the bank and other investments I wouldn't need it although I would still get one.  The up front cost is would be negligible if I was already super rich anyway.  But would allow another tax free transfer of wealth to kids ect. 

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

@John Perrings Well said.  When it comes down to it I am just using it as a place to store money and get a return but have access to when a deal arises that I want to do. 

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

@Ben Zimmerman the whole idea is to do both.  

if you had 50k to dump in the stock market at say 10% you would make 5k annually 

if you put that same 50k in to an overfunded whole life policy and borrowed the 90% (45k) and put in the same investment you would make appr 5500 annually.  the 50k still earns the 6%-4.5% which is a spread of 1-1.5% plus the 10% on the investment of the 45k.  This spread grows and increases the amount you would make the longer you have the policy.

It is an expense though to keep the policy active that has to be accounted for.  Def wouldn't want to do it and end up letting the policy default.  

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Ben Zimmerman:

So the "actual numbers" involve earning 1% of the cash value after arbitrage?  That's not even going to cover the random fees and expenses involved with setting up and maintaining a life insurance policy.  There is no reason to introduce countless extra steps when the gain isn't even going to cover the costs.

Not to mention you typically can't borrow the full cash value of the policy, which means you have less money to actually invest into real estate than if you had not paid into the cash value at all.  Whole life insurance is complicated to understand, has a very high monthly premium that can be problematic during financial down turns, and yields low rates of return when not using a loan.  Many people probably wouldn't otherwise obtain life insurance at all so they are otherwise paying for something they didn't really want in the first place, and could have simply invested the premiums instead into appreciating assets and enjoyed those assets while alive as well as passing them on to heirs should they pass.  Lastly a loan needs to be repaid, which is going to cut into monthly cashflow.

In short its just way too much work and effort for essentially no rewards after you account for policy fees and costs.  If you really want life insurance then just get a regular policy and skip all the nonsense.  There are plenty of other good ways to obtain a loan against assets you own without going down this rabbit hole.

 There is an inflection point, usually around 6-7yrs were you will have access to more money then what you have put in.  Yes the spread is only about 1% from the growth and the loan but the entire amount is still compounding none stop at 5.5-6% as if you didn't borrow any.  What else can you do that with?  I have borrowed from my 403b but with it i had strict payment schedule every month and the money I borrowed out stopped working and growing in the retirement account until I put it back in. Plus the growth in the IBC policy is all tax free.  Payment is flexible.  I can pay as little as 430$ a month or as much as 44k a yr. and you can stop contributing at all if you want after 7 yrs.  But at that point you have an instant return on you money you put in and can access more then the amount put in. So most people want to keep putting money into it at that point.    The death benefit is tax free to you family. Plus the policy is protected from law suits ect.  

Its just another tool that works for some and not for others.  My only regret is I didn't get a policy sooner.  

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

Mine served 2 purposes.  I wanted something to help me put money away that I could use when I want to do a deal.  And my wife is super afraid of me investing and afraid of what will happen if something happens to me and I get hit by a bus.  The policy helped me comfort her and will help me get deals when they arise.  VS just saving the $ in a bank.  

Post: Infinite Banking Concept

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

Mine is working well and I don't regret getting it.  If I can put money in and borrow it out to invest yet that amount continues to grow as if I didn't borrow any at around 5.5% and the loan is 4.5% and I can make 10+% on what I invest it in I am happy . And the payment is flexible.  Its not like a car payment that has to be made every month. Of course the sooner you pay it back the better but don't have to pay it back at all if you don't want.

Post: Using life insurance to buy real estate

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115
Quote from @Amit Chawla:
Quote from @Ryan Kempkens:
Quote from @Khari F.:
Quote from @Michael A.:
Quote from @Khari F.:

How does insurance company qualify/underwrite you? Seasoning period?

It’s based on your age, health and financials. The better health you have the better cost of insurance. This will allow you to optimize the policy in the most efficient way. Once you know what product and amount of money to put into it: you sign an application, do a medical exam where the nurse comes to your house for 10 minutes (insurance company pays for it), then sign off on the policy and submit your check. 

You can use these insurance machines for tax-free income, buying real estate, storing capital, estate Taxes, income protection, etc. 

Can parent borrow against insurance policy on child whose financials are great?

@Khari F. You don't have to qualify or have any seasoning period in these types of loans. Your thinking of them like bank financing which it is not, the loan provision in a whole life contract is a stipulation of the contract. Meaning that the insurance company has a contractual obligation to make the loan to you. This is why you can only get a loan up to the the cash value of the policy. 

If you put 20% down on a property from your saving or investments, you are no longer earning interest on that money. It may be earning a return from the RE investment but not interest directly from that money. If you had your wealth in a whole life policy and took a policy loan for that 20% down payment it doesn't come from your principal in the policy so you will still earn your guarantee rate plus the dividend rate on that 20% down payment and you've made the returns from the RE investment. Doing this puts you on the right side of Interest equation, using Whole Life in this way is a savings vehicle not an investment. It becomes powerful when you use your savings in it to fund your investments. 

Quick example: You have $100,000 in cash value in you policy vs. $100,000 in an investment account both earn on average 10% a year (just for easy math) You want to buy a $500,000 property

Whole Life- Your $100,000 in cash value is credited $10,000 (Policy loan interest rate are normally 5%-8% we'll say 8% to be conservative) $8,000 Deducted                      Net total is +$2000 credited to your whole life policy first year. If the property returns 10% Cash on cash return another $10,000                                          total of $12,000 on that $100,000 cash investment with the compounding effect in future years to magnify that with no opportunity cost 

Investment Account- If you sell an investment earning 10% a year to fund the down payment you still earn the COC return of $10,000 if the property preforms, your opportunity cost is then the 10% you lose in control of the investment account or $10,000. So it's a net $0 but with tax advantages and other reasons to invest in RE over other investments, that is an argument stock investors give, not mine personally

Saving Account- Down Payment from saving would be the same as Investment Account with mush less direct opportunity cost say you get 1% again for easy math, you would earn the $10,000 COC return year 1 with an opportunity cost of $1000 for $9000 net.

Hope this long winded example helps to clear up a little on what it means to use Whole Life for investing. It's more about a better way to deploy your capital than people thinking about it as an investment it's self. 

Be very careful if some one tries to sell you using Indexed Universal Life for this function, they are two very different products and policy loans in a IUL if not fully fund and paid back are dangerous to the policy. IUL's have their place but not as banking vehicle.   

Where I get confused is this: 

 How much would have to be put into a policy in order to have a cash value of $100,000 vs putting $100,000 in the bank?  Im guessing you obviously have to put more into the policy in order to reach that cash value of $100,000.  So if I am just starting investing, wouldn't it be easier for me to save $100,000 instead of trying to get a whole life policy with a cash-value of $100,000?  So yes, I might get a slightly better return on the policy, but it would take me far longer to get to that cash value vs putting it in an account.


 This is true.  it would take 110K or so to have access to 100k. But depending on how the policy is set up by yr 5-8 you begin to have access to more money then you put in.  its def not a get rich quick approach.  I was super skeptical but stoked on my policy now that I have it and its working correctly.   

Post: Life Insurance options

Jeffrey EvansPosted
  • Investor
  • San Jose Ca
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 115

I recently got a WL policy designed for IBC use.  Its been great and worked as described.  I wish I would have started it sooner.  Mine has a blended term policy for 7 yrs to raise the MEC limit and allow me to put more money into it.  This also raises the Death benefit.  once it falls off the death benifit drops but grows back up to around the same by yr 15 or so.  If you are not planning to take the money out and use it for other investments ect then I don't know if a policy set up for IBC would be the best option.