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All Forum Posts by: Jeff G.

Jeff G. has started 10 posts and replied 29 times.

Post: Approved development not looking profitable - Ideas?

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10

"Construction" = the master development, i.e. construction of the roads, curbs, gutters, water main, storm water drains, storm water retention basin, sidewalks, landscaping, neighborhood lighting.

We aren't home builders. We're just a family who owns a few acres in a good area that seemed like it had development potential. Not being home builders, we need to make money on the development itself, and my math shows that that won't happen. In fact, we would likely lost money, and probably a lot of money.

Do you think residential developers generally only make money on the house itself, not the lot? I'm starting to suspect that's the case.

Post: Approved development not looking profitable - Ideas?

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10

Hi all - Our residential development plan has had a "budget bust", so I'm looking for other alternatives. Here's the story:

Background: Since the early 80's my family has owned 8.5 acres with our SFH on it in a good location in this university town, an area which has only improved over the decades. Now the property is in a very good location with very few other vacant lands still available for development anywhere within a mile or two. Nearly all lands within a couple miles have now been built out, and it's all residential and lower impact commercial such as banks and churches, no gas stations or Walmarts. The paved road passing by the property is definitely considered a desirable area. There are a number of nice neighborhoods in the area, some absolute mansions, the schools are top notch, there is nice retail shopping less than a mile away in one direction, and within 2 miles two other directions, no 'ugly' commercial, and there are no blighted or poor areas nearby.

Our SFH is in a corner of the property, and we decided to look into developing the rest of the property into a residential development. We ended up going through the entire design process all the way through to receiving a construction permit for 14 new vacant residential lots averaging 0.26 acres, only to find out after receiving 5 bids from established local construction companies that the development seems to be a break-even scenario, at best. And since time would most likely be a factor in selling the lots, we'd almost surely actually lose money. Also, since we already owned the property my calculations don't even consider the value of the raw land (which they should). By researching nearby comps and talking to a professional appraiser, these 14 lots would sell for an average of about $80K each = $1,120,000 total. And the costs of developing (planning, permitting, construction, etc) would total over $1,100,000 ... which puts the costs at $78,500 per lot. And I feel certain the costs would actually be higher, for several reasons, including the fact that our local construction contractors will only provide a base price for their work, which they then 'adjust' "if" they encounter things like clay, rock or water. I know for certain they will encounter clay and rock, and I think at least a little water is very possible too. I was told by the low bidder that the worst case scenario would be $1.1M ... so the $1.1M total cost figure I stated above would increase to more like $1.4M

Halted. So it's almost certain we would lose money if we proceeded, especially if we consider the underlying raw land's value, which we certainly should consider (why give it away). But at this point, we have halted progress and have been looking into different possibilities on how to proceed.

One simpler alternative. The 8.5 acres actually consists of 2 long, narrow parcels, and our local officials have told me that the parcels could each be split once into buildable residential lots without being required to follow any of the residential development codes: No DOT roads, stormwater drains, stormwater basin, curbs, gutters, lighting, landscaping, etc. The locations of where the split lines would go are very obvious, and they'd result in our existing SFH being on a 1.86 AC lot and we'd have for sale 3 new vacant lots: 1.7 AC, 1.86 AC and 2.9 AC. These lots could opt for well and septic, or since water and sewer pass right by the property, owners could choose to connect to either/both. I estimate these 3 lots would sell for an average of $200K each. And the total costs to get them ready for sale should not exceed $50K, and probably less. The bulk of that would be a new simple paved drive about 240' long. We would not curb it, and there are no requirements to install stormwater pipes, lighting, follow DOT road specs, etc. So we might net $525K this way, after RE fees.

Revise the plan? Since the property abuts only other residential parcels, local codes won't allow commercial without a land use change, and even then it is very, very unlikely we would get that approved. This is a university town, and we have very liberal/left local leaders. And at this point with about $100K paid out already, I'm not inclined to throw more money into re-planning/re-permitting without being convinced we'd be likely to do better than the 'simple split' plan.

So, I'm asking if you have any other ideas. Are we better off to do the 'simple split' and sell the 3 large lots, which we really cannot lose on? Or do you have another suggestion that has a chance at bettering the 'simple split'?

I've tried to state all of the relevant info, but feel free to ask for any other details I may have forgotten.

Sorry this is so long ... Thank you all.

Post: Borrowing vs Paying Cash for residential development

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10

Thank you Michael. Contacting a CPA is good idea,

Post: Borrowing vs Paying Cash for residential development

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10

Hi all ...

First stab at residential development, and I'm working on a small, 14-lot neighborhood of all SFHs. The design and permitting is complete, and we're awaiting the 4th and prob final contractor to submit their bid for the actual infrastructure construction (roads, storm drains, sewer, utility, etc). It's looking like $800K total. I'm trying to determine whether to pay cash for it, or borrow. I own the land outright, and do have the funds for the construction.

Would you leave the cash in your normal passive investments (mix of bond funds & stock market) and borrow for the construction, or pull the funds out of the investments and pay cash?

In order to keep this simple, let's not make judgments on the current state of the stock market or where it might be headed in the next year or 2 or 5; let's simply assume the commonly touted 7-8% average long-term return will continue ... again just to keep it simple.

Thanks all ...

Russell and all - After completing removal of the horrible smelly carpet, the house still smelled pretty bad. So I sprayed a soaking layer of vinegar on every square inch of the plywood 2nd story floor & stairs, which helped but didn't eliminate the odor. However a painted on layer of Kilz did. Now the house smells perfect-O. So after finishing that, showering myself, and calming down, I decided to just let it go ... not pursue money from them; consider it a lesson learned & be happy they paid their rent on time, every time for 5.5 years.

I sure appreciate all of the responses you all were nice enough to post here.

Post: Qualifying a buyer for owner financing

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10
Originally posted by @Curt Smith:

I have a free ebook I wrote from m own seller financing steps following dodd frank.  Connect with me so I can get it to you.

Never seller fianance a property you haven't rented for a few months.  IRS regs on installment sale tax treatment is:   tax on the gain of the house is due in the year of sale for inventory (buy, fix , sell),  which will kill you.  

Rent the home for a few months so it's investment property.  Then you can take installment sale tax treatment.

Curt - I've owned the place since last December, so 10 months. It's been rehabbed over that time & hasn't been rented. Will the tax on the gain as you mention still apply? i.e. does that 10-month ownership equate to the same as having rented it out?

Post: Qualifying a buyer for owner financing

Jeff G.Posted
  • Orange Park, FL
  • Posts 29
  • Votes 10

Hi all. 2 partners and I are trying to sell a SFR via owner financing, and we could use some guidance on what we should / can / can't do regarding qualifying a buyer. Credit check? Current employment? Employment history?

I've done some searching on this site, and still am while awaiting replies, but we're in a bit of a hurry so I thought I'd also post the question.

Thank you.

Jd Martin - Your response seems unnecessarily defeatist; i.e. Because I gave the deposit back, I should drop the issue, even though keeping the deposit may have had merit? I myself do not consider pursuing $ too late at this point. For example, if it takes 5 hours and I recoup $5,000, well isn't that $1,000/ hour? So to me, this is a matter of whether I should pursue or not, now. I do understand most responders think I should not.

For those interested, I will post the final decision, including the result if I decide to pursue them in some way, including how I did that.

I posted my previous reply before reading Mike H.'s reply. Mike, I'm with you on carpet lasting more than 5 years. Damn. This is a tough one. Probably will just let it go, though.

OK, thanks all. I had considered the 'how long should carpet last anyway' idea, especially in a rental, but hadn't thought about the IRS depreciation aspect. (I'm new to the landlord thing, as I think I've stated in other posts some time back)

Funny - When I'm not working in that place with its god-awful wooly dog odor, I feel like being lenient toward them; then when I go back in there to work some more, I get angry again and wanna go after their wallet! "Who could live like this??!" and "Who would let their dogs piss all over the entire house like this??!" But, like I said, the odor was masked pretty well before they had the carpet steam cleaned. They had to have known, but had somehow just decided it was acceptable. YIKES.

In any case, I'll let it go then. And just be glad they consistently paid the rent for all those years.

Oh, and I just stopped by the house: After finally removing all the carpet, padding & tack strips late last night, I drenched the plywood floors with 50/50 vinegar/water with a pump sprayer, and it's smelling MUCH better now. So I don't think subflooring will need to be replaced or anything like that. Very relieved. I may let that all dry and paint it, as suggested, which would be cheap, easy & fast (a rare combo!), but will decide after another couple days of letting it air out.

I really appreciate all the responses.