Summary: I attended the December 2017 event as a VIP member. Compared to other events I attended over the past 23 years, this had the least usable content and the most red flags. I did not receive “VIP Education,” I did not sign up for the $50,000 Big Dog Program, and I was invisible to them once my decision not to sign up was known. I think there is some value to what they teach, but not for what they charge. The main value to me would be the networking with other Big Dogs, as they condition their Big Dogs to not engage with non-Big Dogs, but it’s not worth $50K to me for the “privilege” of networking with others.
Details: The following submission is based on me and my fiancee’s observations and experiences for Phil’s Big Live Event on Dec 1-3, 2017. My intention is not to write a hit piece, but rather share my experience being there.
Part 1: The VIP Experience
We paid $1000 to be VIPs. My expectations upon signing up for VIP were that we would receive exclusive insights, education, and access to Phil and Shenoah. We got a limo-van tour of 3 properties, we had snacks and some class time at Phil’s mansion, we got hotel food in a private meeting room, and we got a steak dinner at Perry’s Steakhouse and Grill.
Expectation #1: Insights
We heard stories of students’ deals. During the first day introductions of all the VIP members, it became apparent to me that everyone else was a newbie, and I was by far the most veteran investor there. Nothing stands out to me as far as Insights that was worth $1000.
Expectation #2: Education
There was no exclusive strategy or seller negotiation tactic or any major lesson taught to us VIP members. We pretty much got the same content as everyone else in the room, who didn’t pay $1000. What was severely lacking the entire weekend was any detailed information about how to go out and find these deals. I’m not talking about a powerpoint bullet about “pre-foreclosures” or “probate.” I’m talking about more granular steps: which website to go to, what search filters to use, what areas to focus on; I’ve attended other coaches’ classes that did provide this level of granularity, and the price-to-content ratio was well worth it.
Expectation #3: Access
I did not witness much effort on Phil or Shenoah’s part to individually build relationships with the VIP members. I felt that all the activities and discussions were intended to funnel people into the Big Dog Program.
Part 2: My Red Flags from being an attendee
Red Flag #1: Grooming. I felt that the entire class was being groomed to sign up for the Big Dog Program. We would frequently be told “It’s not what it costs you, it’s what it makes you.” On the one hand, yes, that makes sense. If you spend $3000/month on direct mail marketing, it might make you $30,000 from a deal you get from that marketing. If you spend $50,000 on the Big Dog Program, it might make you $50,000 on your first deal. Or it might make you nothing (if you take no action or give up too soon). Or it might make you $50,000 over the course of a year or two. On the other hand, I saw it as a way to get people to do mental gymnastics in their head to justify taking a large financial risk for a coaching program.
Red Flag #2: Exclusion. They strongly discourage all attendees from listening to experienced investors (EI) that aren't in the Big Dog Program: The EI could give them bad information; The EI thinks he knows it all; The EI is dangerous and is not to be trusted; The worst advice is Bad Trusted Advice. That last one does make sense in certain contexts, but can be used to dissuade newbies from talking to EIs. What I got out of this is that they want full control of information flow to their newbies. Also, by segregating Big Dogs from non-Big Dogs at the REIA events and the like, they create great value in providing exclusive access to the veteran Big Dogs.
Red Flag #3: No Software Demos. I’m a software guy - my career was in games and software testing. If one of the major selling points of a coaching program is a software ecosystem, then I expect to see reasonable real-time demonstrations of how the software works before I commit any money to that program. We didn’t get any demos of the software. We only got some screenshots from the slideshow. We did, however, get a demo of a heat map that showed property appreciation over time. That was neat, but we only saw the Austin heat map because Phil abruptly ended his presentation without showing the San Antonio heat map.
Red Flag #4: Funneling. In my opinion, their single objective is to get people to sign up for the Big Dog program. On the last day, Sunday, Phil abruptly ended his presentation after the staff asked the room if anyone else was interested in the Big Dog program and got no responses.
Red Flag #5: The Push For Ignorance. That sounds pretty strong, right? Throughout the weekend we were constantly reminded “You don’t need to know everything, you just need to find someone that does.” This means you are always relying on someone else instead of learning how to do it yourself. My takeaway was that the underlying message is “You don’t have to know anything, you just need to sign up for our program so you rely on someone else to tell you what to do.” This works for some people, but not for me. I know I don’t have to know everything, and I already have various subject matter experts in my network.
An additional note about the abruptness:
We attended different REIA events in December and met up with several folks who attended the same Big Live Event. They were confused by the abrupt ending as well, and asked each other "Is it over?" Their biggest complaints were: (1) that he told too many stories and dragged them out too long, and (2) they didn't get much value from the weekend in general. Before attending this event, I searched BiggerPockets for mentions of this event. I found lots of posts, and noted that another attendee complained about Phil abruptly ending his presentation when it was apparent no more Big Dog signups were occurring.
An additional note on RENC Meetings:
We went to 2 meetings last year. I didn't get much value out of them and discontinued my membership at the end of the year. They are geared toward newbies. All the important content is gate-locked (i.e. for Big Dogs only). The main value I would get from being part of RENC is the email list-serve for pitching deals. In contrast, I attended REAPS (in Seattle) for many years and got tons of value there, both in education and in networking. RENC is the most disappointing REIA meeting experience I have ever been to. For veterans, don't waste your time unless you are looking to network with newbies. For newbies, go check it out and decide for yourself. Then check out other REIAs and network with everyone you can.
Conclusions:
1. For me, the Big Dog Program is not worth it at this time. It simply is not in alignment with how we do things. VIP was a waste of money. There are other programs and coaches out there that teach the same concepts that don’t cost as much. I already have a large network that I spent years building.
2. For those new to real estate, do your own due diligence and trust your gut. My gut was wrenching when I was briefly considering signing up for the Big Dog Program.
3. If you do commit to their program, you may very well be successful. There are students in that program that seem to be doing very well. The “time compression” concept does sound very appealing, and might be worth it for you. If you can afford to spend $20K to $50K to learn things such that you can avoid making $20K to $50K mistakes on your deals, then that’s great. Go for it.
