All Forum Posts by: Jane Manzel

You took offense to “unicorn” in the context of what I wrote?

Urbandictionary dot com has a number of entries defining “unicorn.” Entry Three begins with: “A Unicorn can refer to a man or a woman and is often used to describe the perfect catch or perfect partner. A Unicorn is a mythical creature, someone amazing who is hard to catch or simply a very rare find. The term is often describing someone who is remarkably attractive (above a 7.9), but not at all ******* crazy, amazing at sex, and has a great personality...”

I can only wish someone would “disrespect” me like that...

But you did think that I was disrespectful to you: While I can see how “Al D” could be presumed to be (the real) “Donald T” in a real estate investors forum, in your case, the real “Al D” meant “unicorn” as no more than “a very rare find,” which should have been understood as such in the context of that same paragraph - which also happened to be the paragraph where I praised you comprehension skills... And given the time of night on our mutual left coast as I was writing my comment, I could have been dreaming of a unicorn. And this is not Twitter. In any case, my apologies for how you took it. My “robbery” comment was also a metaphor.

You refer to this forum as “professional.” While all the comments before I chimed in were such (in my own opinion - which should not be worth much,) I would not take anything here as “legal advice.” I would also be careful about taking anyone’s “advice” here as “professional,” no matter how smart they may sound in any given comment (including myself, at times;) although, a fair number of people here are professional. But I’ve seen some really stupid advice, as well (again, in my own opinion.) Do be careful. You are correct, it’s “the Internet.”

You say that “...at no point in time did (you) say that (you) know the law.” Survey says: You did say, “I know the law,” right after you said that you’d never done “this” in your 20 years of owning properties. So, I wanted to make sure that you did not say this in front of a prospective attorney - they are still people and have egos and little desire to fix your possible additional future mistakes (that your attitude may suggest to them you’ll commit once their client) on top of the ones you already come to them with. Hence my “hat in hand” idiom, which may also be a metaphor. (I am not sure. Definitely at least an idiom. I don’t know; my English is not very good looking... Some innocent humor to keep your spirits up.)

Now you are saying that the tenant is asking for less than $2,000? You did not say for what, which is a perfect segue to, again, suggest that you need to speak with a professional - who could ask you the right questions “live” - because, as you say, you didn’t post “all the aftermath.” Nor should you - not in a public forum.

You can keep trying to explain yourself further here. I would not. You need an attorney - that is the most important advice I could give you (you know, for what it’s worth.) But I also see it being repeated here by people I’d consider “professional.” I thought it was your existing legal predicament - and attitude - that has kept preventing you from finding an attorney. I guess I was wrong. I’m sure that your unicorn (attorney) is out there.

If getting an attorney should still continue to prove fruitless, I’d start (politely and business-like - not to be confused with hat-in-hand) at the $2,000 figure that either of you has already “floated” in your “negotiation” with the tenant. But - now that I understand that there is a restraining order (which applies to both parties) - either do that through a trusted emissary (unless the RO prohibits even that) or continue in writing (like by email - my preferred way, because there is record who said what/when.) (As long as the RO also does not prohibit even pigeon mail/“telecommunication” contact.) But you must have no “attitude” - no matter how personal this has been for you... If there is any doubt as to what the RO prohibits, getting an attorney to represent you ASAP becomes even more important. Keep knocking on those doors. Good luck.

(And, just in case: I am not a lawyer. None of what I said should be taken as legal advice.)

@Jane Manzel If this is your legal name, I would not use it on a public forum.  

If all she wants is $2,000 give it to her, thank her and get over it.  It'll be cheaper than an attorney and less hassle.  If she's had 10 evictions she knows the law and I bet she'll find a lawyer (if she already hasn't) to settle for more than $2,000. 

Good luck

For all newbies reading this thread this is a good reason to have a property manager

She began to "threaten me at work". This could get a lot worse. Be careful. You may want to just return her stuff and go from there if you cant get her out otherwise. If she threatens you report it to the police. It is california so you should just keep trying for the lawyer. There should be a few lawyers out there, maybe you cant get one that will handle the way you want but they should be able to get it done.

I am sorry, but, really? “I've been owning properties for over 20 years and this is the first time I've done this...”

Before you said that, I thought I was reading a post by someone who rented out a room in their primary residence for the first time, and made a “mistake” that few rookies would even make.

Rookies here ask about whether they should form an LLC before buying their first property - they are afraid of liability before they have any experience under their belts. They've heard stories. And you ask how you may lose your property?

You yourself know that you broke the law - you should feel blessed that the judge did not want to hear about the lockout and did not offer your tenant additional (free) advice (against you.)

Now you want to get rid of the tenant’s items that you (illegally) put into storage because you no longer want to pay the storage fees?

I mean, knowing that you broke the law, that is still your attitude? You must understand, on some level, that once you did something illegal, any damage from that is on you - I would not add the price of tenant’s personal items to that (regardless of what “value” you may think it has); you should probably make sure that the storage unit is climate-controlled and is not in a flood zone.

I don’t think I’d want to be your lawyer with your attitude. (I am not a lawyer.) I don’t know exactly what “lay low on stuff in storage means,” but it still sounds like sound legal advice to me - don’t dig a deeper hole for yourself.

You would like advice from this forum?

You have gotten some good advice here, not illegal kind. Go to the library and pick up a Nolo book on California landlord/tenant laws (I’d say that any year print in the last 40 is good enough.) If you know that your rental property is subject to local rent control laws, you must do additional research. Do this today. I don’t think it should take you long to understand what you read - you write well and answer questions on point, so your comprehension must be good. And I am just stunned that you’ve been in this for that long, and in California. No wonder the lawyers ask you why you did what you did. Personally, I feel like I am speaking with a unicorn right now.

Change your attitude to something more reasonable, and look for an attorney again, with your hat in hand. And don’t say again that you know the law, especially when speaking with a prospective attorney.

From your writing, it appears that you seem to be expecting a positive outcome of the Eviction and Small Claims - are you sure? (This question is rhetorical.)

I think that the best case scenario for you is to do cash for keys, as at least two people above suggested - if you can treat your tenant with the “respect” typically due a robber who is holding a gun in your direction from just feet away.

If you are too “proud,” and your daughter is an adult, maybe you can let her find a lawyer for you - I think that your case can certainly be represented, but you must be willing to listen to reason. Sounds like your daughter may have a cooler head. Maybe she can do the cash for keys on your behalf - may be less “personal” to the tenant.

I don’t typically take this tone here, but feel that you need a wake up call.

You need a HIRE a lawyer! Stop trying to get a short cut! You can be in a world of hurt for what you did! This is business as usual, and stop making it personal.

Don’t go around work and bad mouth this person either!

You had own this unit for 20 years and you can easily lose it!

Just know mentally prepare urself to lose 5k-10k if not more. She could be trashing your place if she is being evicted.

Offer her money, not 500, more like 2000-3000 depending on your rental market, for her keys with hiring a lawyer to draw up the agreement. The more illegal stuff you do, the more money you will lose!
Again, don’t take it too personally, better yet, ask your daughter to help you with the work, so you won’t mess up because you are feeling a lot.

Originally posted by @Jane Manzel:

My daughter also said that I didn't think this through and I don't have what it takes to follow up. I just wish an attorney would tell me anything besides good luck!

As you are beginning to realize, you are in very dangerous legal jeopardy.  That is why you are having a hard time finding an attorney to take your case.  Right now, the tenant has all the power.  She could sue you and get a lot of your money.

You need to get legal possession of your unit.  Meet with your tenant at a notary's office. Offer her $500 to sign a Release of Possession form releasing your rental property back to you.  Word your form so that possession is returned to you as of the date you moved her belongings out, and she agrees her interest in the property is satisfied.   If she agrees, have her sign the form, you sign the form and get it notarized.  Hand over the cash.  This is sort of like an after-the-fact cash for keys arrangement.  I am not an attorney, and I am not a California landlord, but this seems to me to be the wisest course of action.  Pray she doesn't hold out for more money.  Be sweet, even if it kills you.  Do not do anything more to p*ss her off.

Hire a property manager before you re-rent the unit.  Get some education on CA landlord/tenant law,  Fair Housing, and how to properly screen a tenant before attempting to self manage again.  You are in over your head.  Quit listening to your daughter.  Legal mistakes in Landlord/tenant law get very expensive for the landlord, especially in tenant-friendly states like California.

I hope this works for you.

You are in a tough spot for two reasons: you are in the People's Republic of Kalifornia and you attempted to evict the tenant on your own (aka "self-help eviction"). Once you stepped down that path, you're committed. But you made another mistake by giving her stuff back without requiring her to pay rent or storage costs. Then you made another mistake by allowing her to take some stuff but leave other items in storage.

The only advice I can offer is illegal so I'll keep it to myself. Keep looking for an attorney that specializes in evictions.

You are in a tough spot for two reasons: you are in the People's Republic of Kalifornia and you attempted to evict the tenant on your own (aka "self-help eviction"). Once you stepped down that path, you're committed. But you made another mistake by giving her stuff back without requiring her to pay rent or storage costs. Then you made another mistake by allowing her to take some stuff but leave other items in storage.

The only advice I can offer is illegal so I'll keep it to myself. Keep looking for an attorney that specializes in evictions.